I suspect that these are going to be issues that westerners encounter in almost any authentic traditional lineage of Buddhism. Forms of ritual magick; such as blessings and exorcisms, seem to have attached to themselves to all or nearly all schools. It appears that this comes largely from the native traditions of host countries; whether that is the Animism of Burma or Thailand, Chinese Taoism, Tibetan Bon, or Japanese Shinto. One can avoid some of this in the "New Religions." The thing is, I encounter few people who really object to the ritual magick aspects. I find it rather "charming" . Someone commented that, at worst, it is really good theater.

There is another matter that is far more problematic, and which comes up a lot. A whole bunch. It is also a very sensitive issue that is hard to talk about. Two dearly departed friends, Barbara Pike and Wendy Ehlman, addressed these matters very frankly. Barbara was especially direct, maybe because of her advanced age. They were, by no means the only ones who had issues; they were just a bit more public. I hear the same story time and again:

paraphrased: 'I really connected with the doctrines and practices. However, fitting in with the Sangha was the problem. I was expected to adopt Japanese cultural mores. While I could relate well to the individuals, relating to the group was difficult. I have my own culture and am happy with it; I have no intention of becoming Japanese."

I think a lot of this has do with attitudes toward authority. Few of my fellow Americans really care what is in the leader's heart, and have no wish to meet the expectations of a central figure, especially one who they have never met in person; or even interacted with in any way. Approaching them that way is a good way to ensure that they will quietly look for the nearest exit.

However, that is not the only thing. Wendy "Byrd" Ehlman was especially skilled at framing and talking about the issues. Bento Box Buddhism was Byrd's last blog. My Book Report was from about a year ago. There is much more at A Byrd's Eye View

Reverend Greg was also known to tackle these issues, see Confessions of a Nichiren Buddhist Ninja.

For more on Barbara Pike''s take, type this into google:

site:www.fraughtwithperil.com "Barbara Pike" or Click Here Look at her comments. Please be prepared for the "Bodhisattva Doesn't Mince Words."

I would also add that "we" in the west should be mindful of our own rather reckless, impudent, arrogant western chauvinism,

robin

The simialr trend will be happening in the future Western Buddhism, they will too carried their own cultural baggages ( espectially those derived from their Christain heritage ) in the similar complains would arise when the Western Buddhism attempts to transmits their Dharma teachings to said Latin American or African nations.

Ansanna

The West too has an array of different cultures and it's best to be aware that the West is not an homogeneous mass who fit your description.

Robby,

I think that HHY has an excellent point- just like there is not one "east" there is not one "west". I don't think that Buddhism will manifest the same in every culture in the West. Just like Christianity was shaped by the cultures it met, there will be differences in what is emphasized and how the Buddhism's practice and outlook is shaped.

My own background is in Tibetan Buddhism, and ritual takes on a prime importance there many times. So when I joined Nichiren Shu nothing about the ceremonies seemed dramatic or strange. When I first saw and participated in a Kito ceremony I was overjoyed, it was an amazing experience. I've found these rituals and demonstrations of faith to be very uplifting.

In Nichiren Shu I have not really practiced with Japanese people extensively; there just aren't any in Florida! When I have been with Japanese laity and ministers I see differences in how they teach and approach Americans. Some tend to be very Japanese and others really try to connect with Americans with our culture. The Japanese ministers are very approachable and helpful- I don't get a sense that I'm to act Japanese, but I try and meet them half-way. When we first meet we bow to each other and then we shake hands. Simple!

I wonder if you are half joking? Europe, mainly Spain and Portugal, of course. already brought its Christian culture to Latin America, that is probably where it got the name Latin America. At any rate, it is a lot more complex than that. The culture of the United States is as much or more secular Greco-Roman as it is religious Judeo-Christian. There are also many different sub-cultures, at various stages of assimilation, that make up the whole.

America was once called a melting pot culture. That is not at all acurate; as it implies we are homogeneous. Someone, I have forgotten who, called it more of a stew pot culture. In a stew, each ingredient maintains its own integrity. However, the component parts are all mixed together, softened up a bit, and season one another, The best stews are slow cooked in their own juices, with just a bit of added water and seasoning. Stews are unpredictable; no two are exactly the same.

I recall the first time I had Sukiyaki. A member from Japan made it in an electric skillet. Like with a stew, the beef, tofu, shirataki, and vegetables shared a common sauce. However, the chef carefully kept each one separated. I instinctively mixed mine all together, and got some frowns. I wondered if he would have eaten a beef stew like one of my sisters childhood friends? She would carefully separate the beef, potatoes, carrots, celery, and onions on her plate, before proceeding to eat.

The Japanese Nichiren Schools are certainly free to operate their overseas missions like colonies, governed / administered from Japan. They are simply not going to attract many people, and will tend to lose those they do attract. One traditional lineage is training native Minisiters; but there are bumps in that path. One of the 'new religions' is talking about a dual system -- one to serve the needs of the traditional ethnic Japanese congregations; another governed by trained Americans to meet the more culturally diverse needs of Americans.

I think in all the different situations, it is going to take a few things; awareness, tolerance, flexibility, and patience. This is actually probably easier for Americans; since Japanese culture is less heterogeneous {I see it as much Confucian and Shinto as it is Buddhist}. American culture is so diverse, with undefined boundaries, that is hard to say what it is. There are even fairly homogeneous enclaves -- I have distant relatives who live in small "German towns" where German is still taught in the schools and spoken at home.

Any evangelical Buddhism that wishes to succeed long term on main street in America is likely going to have to follow the "Association" model seen in Protestant Churches; local control, financial accountability {with most of the money raised locally staying locally}, lots of ecumenical activity, tolerance of members switching Churches without being viewed as traitors, and so on. I suppose a sort of "federation" or "confederation" system might work? A top down "unitary" or "corporate" system like the televangelist 'mega churches' might get faster results; I do not see it sinking permanent roots.

Vague outlines of organization models:

Unitary Corporate System: Local administrators serve as agents of and answer to the central authority and have no real authority, except as provisionally delegated. The Temples and centers are centrally owned. I think for this to work, the directors will need to take an eclectic approach, be willing to absorb native cultures.

Voluntary Association System: Local units are individually owned and locally managed; central body serves the common interests of locals. The locals generally have to accept some central policies to remain in the association

Federation or confederation system: Various blends of the other two; with shared local & central authority, governed by rules that are difficult to amend. .

Of course, Buddhists can and should just get together at informal ecumenical gatherings. This is not going to build anything long term, unless they create an organization. Individuals with the know how can easily start their own non-profit units, like the 'store front churches;' and decide to associate with a lineage or not. Both are happening now. The wise established lineages ought to see these happenings as good things; others with a colonial mind set might see it as rebellion; and react by cracking down on errant members.

robin

I agree; and I think I addressed that in my reply to Ansanna. I even think the culturally obnoxious, chauvinistic "Ugly American: is becoming a relic of the past. Most Americans were never that way. A fairly recent poll showed that most American Christians even reject the idea that Christ is the only way to salvation.



I agree on this as well. If anything, most Americans I have spoken with are attracted by things that seem exotic or mystical. Some people some time ago were putting up web sites intended to discredit another school. I looked at the pictures and thought, 'Wow! that is pretty cool'. In my case, it aroused interest. I was raised as a Methodist. Our churches had very austere altars, and no ritual other than boring hymns. I was rather envious of my Catholic cousins.



It is not real simple in all cases everywhere. It appears to me, looking in from the outside, that Nichiren Shu has enough grass roots flexibility to adjust. Some temples exist to serve the needs of an ethnic Japanese community, and that is just the way it is. That is where my point about us being aware comes in. BTW, I practiced with Japanese, in Soka Gakkai, in the past, extensively. One on one, I never had any problems.

robin

I was raised in a non-religious house so I never had any frame of reference for religious services. In fact the first time I saw a Baptism was in high school and I just about freaked out. It was in this huge water tank above the altar and they dimmed the lights while the person was submerged by the pastor. It was very culty to me I think it was one of the most truly weird rituals I have ever seen. I think I've been traumatized by the Southern Baptists Since then I've seen other much more normal Christian ceremonies since then, but that one still sticks out in my mind.

The rituals in Buddhism always made sense to me; they are moving and very beautiful. Even when feeling the intensity of a Kito ceremony I was very calm but happy. It was then that I think that I really started to understand what a "bodily reading" of the Sutra is all about. It's a very powerful ceremony- especially in a small group as it was only myself and one other person.

I think that ritual gets a bad rap here in the west a lot. I strongly feel that participating in practice together (whether it is sitting practice, chanting, or sadhana) is a way for the sangha to communicate and experience the dharma together. It's bypassing the intellect and moving in a different direction. I've read a lot of people who want to jettison ritual and ceremony in Buddhism and I find that worrisome. Even from the earliest time of the Buddha there has been ritual and ceremony- it's an important part of Buddhism.




No it isn't always simple, but like you said if we bring some awareness and care to these situations is can reduce a lot of conflict. This isn't just an issue with Nichiren sanghas, but with all Buddhist groups who are trying to reconcile how to understand the religion from the culture- whether it be Thai, Chinese, or Tibetan it is common issue in Buddhism's movement into the West.

Robin, I just gave a example about each has it's own cultural baggage. Not necessary the only one , even it is just 10 % of the contribution to the new favour , I think many of Protestant values have sink into subconsciousness level American culture ( regardless it is direct or not ) and it will be reflected in Western Buddhism in the American soil.



But I agreed with it, no one would ready know how the Lotus would Blossom in the different soil, just compares the different Buddhist traditions we have, they are quite different and unique in it's own manifestation, which is great.

ASN

At the same time, I also agreed with the saying about a more workable model , first is to established a big base of lay pratitiioners communities and Buddhist culture , then could they support and protect the emerge of the group of ordained Nichiren sangha from the local people that similar to time of Nichiren and his direct disciples ( similar precept and scholarship professional monks and nuns , such as in Buddhist secular and monastic university ) . Then the Saddharma could said ready takes roots into the soil.


ASN

Hi, Ansanna -

Interestingly, this is the model adopted by Nichiren Shu in North America, and now beginning in South America and Europe.

Hi Robin

I think that this applies in most schools, the culture clash issue.

Authority is one issue, I agree. Though, it may sometimes depend on what the aims of that authority are. eg. if they are aims which would only be shared by one cultural / ethnic group, or are more universal (if such a thing exists ).

For me, I still find that the Buddhist idea of being a "renunciant", and outside society to be the best. Though, indeed, this is neither easy, nor possible for many.

Huifeng

Dear Engyo, true, however not so much as the present priest sangha system, but a slightly higher and bolder level which is to reform the ordain sangha back to the day of Nichiren and Dengyo's days, with Dengyo ideal ordain system of active pure Mahayana ideal in the involvment to reform/purify the secular world and still not bond by Hinayana precepts . It is not easily to do it in Japan itself as the present resistance would be very great. So it should start from a new soil.

ASN

Hi, Ansanna -

OK, so if I am understanding you correctly, what you are postulating is a new ordination system and platform. This makes me very curious as to how you might expect this to unfold, so I have a lot of questions. If you don't have answers, that's fine, I'm just curious.

This would be a professionally monastic group? What sorts of qualifications might they need to meet? What sorts of rules might they follow? Men only, men and women separately, men and women together, different by nation or region?

Do you see this group having any particular geographic center? Would they be connected to Japan and Nichiren's environs physically in any way, or only spiritually? What about languages? Would it be important to learn medieval Japanese in order to read the founder's writings in the original?

How would such a group be administered? Would this group be administered from some central location, or from regional centers, or from national ones, or locally? How would they be supported financially (globally, regionally, nationally, or locally?)?

What kind of timeframe are you envisioning for the growth, adaptation, and finally acceptance of such a group.....sometime in the next decade or two, or in the next century or two?

If in the next decade or two, how would you counter the anti-clergy rhetoric current in some Nichiren groups today?

Not ready Engyo, it is just the setting the correct trend.

But we need to build the right condition, it would happen just only the time factor

1) The level of Buddhist study among the lay practitioners must reach a relatively high level, so that they would put an high standard of expection on what sort of ordain community they want to foster , for them to serve the whole community as a whole.

2) Once few of the sects started the correct trend, all the other existing would have the pressure from their supporter to revert back the correct trend, so the existing ordaination already present in all the various school ( not froming any new lineage )

3) SGI could have it's own ordain lineage, but tapping from it's own lay leaders who convert to monastic , then they would understand, treasure and support the lay sangha movement. This would prevent any crash between ordain and lay communities.

4) the oversea reform would set it wave back to Japan.

ASN

This would be a huge step backwards in my opinion and will probably never happen. SGI is fundamentally built on absolute equality and to seperate any new form of priesthood from lay practitioners would form a layer of those who somehow uphold the Law in a way others do not.

And anyway, if there were to be a layer of ordained monastics, then who would confirm the ordination in the first instance?

This would be an absolute deviation from our present teachings and all our criticisms of the priesthood would appear no more than hypocrisy, given that our dharmic critique goes far deeper than the more transparent issues.

But as I've said, it could never happen without causing a major split within SGI and that would be viewed as creating a very serious transgression. This idea would gain little , if any support.

Yes Hahayana , that's I agreed , as the lay movement have already proven the attainment of buddhahood ( supreme perfect wisdom ) could be achived in the lay practitioners, and fulfilled the Buddha work of Kosenrufu as Bodhisattva of the earth.

What I means of own lineage, refers to reform Shoshu sangha who continue afflicated with SGI. I do not means ready a need of soka ordained sangha, but if the lay could influence and push the Nichiren schools to further uplift their ordain sangha, that is a great contribution to Buddha Dharma as a whole ( 4 groups of disciples )

As Nichiren states , he was not inheritage of the older schools nor he started a new school . He refers just as Buddha Dharma. ( practice according the Buddha's teaching )

Hope I have clarify this.



ASN

My first approaching to Nichiren Shu was because I was noticed about an ex-SGI member of a neightbor country who was to be ordained as a Shami... perhaps if SGI had had a place for priesthood I still would be into SGI, because I was not in any conflict with SGI... but, once I started to know Nichiren Shu I became more and more identified and confortable with them, still the point that I think I'm in the no return path, even if I were not accepted into the priesthood or eventually I go out of Nichiren Shu.

Just thinking in loud words.

What you call reckless, impudent, arrogant western chauvinism some would say is confident self reliance coupled with a healthy dose of cynical disregard for the supposed 'keepers of truth'.

In an information age it may be possible for the teachings of Buddhism to finally be spread on the merits of its universal philosophical/psychological logic decoupled from any particular cultural mythology, paranoia or perspective.