Hi everyone, how are you....I'm doing well...

Been looking on you tube...saw a great interview with larry king and Tina Turner..
She chants , explains it all beautifully for beginners,recites the prayer of gongyo....nice stuff....

on the side you tube gives you other choices to view ,mostly related to topic.....

this has got to be the worst of the worst.....

if you find defiled pictures of the Gohonzon offensive do not look...

DO NOT LOOK if you find defiled Gohonozon pictures offensive....
this is truly offensive....is it photoshoped or is it really manufactured and available for play?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h2ebjMvT7s&feature=related

The pinball Gohonzon is over the top. I've seen members of the Nichiren Shu with Gohonzon inscribed shirts. Is this protecting the Gohonzon? I'm not sure.

Mark

Hi, Mark -

No argument re: the pinball machine.

As regards the pilgrimage jackets - they are used for very specific purposes and worn when visiting temples or on pilgrimages or retreats. They are removed when eating, or upon leaving the temple or retreat. On our pilgrimage, we removed them when we returned to the bus, and kept them properly folded and protected until we came to the next temple or shrine.

This also brings up two questions:

1) What *exactly* is the Gohonzon? Is it the material that the image is printed or inscribed on? Is it the image inscribed on the material? Is it the ink, or paint, or toner that comprises the image? Or could it be that all of these are parts of the sign pointing to the *real* Gohonzon? If they are parts of the sign, is the sign itself sacred?

2) The second question is the old one of eye-opening, and whether or not an image which has not been eye-opened is truly a Gohonzon, or if it is just an image. I know that this varies by school, but those who wear pilgrimage jackets belong to a school which does utilize eye-openings, and for whom an un-eye-opened image of the Omandala is an image which commands respect, but not a Gohonzon in the same sense as one enshrined in an altar after being eye-opened. By their own lights they are being perfectly sincere and respectful.

Hiyya Doc!

On the desecration vids.

1. Who would be motivated to do this and what does that say about them? Whatever it is, we can surmise the malice in their mind, and we ought to have compassion for them, for what they are doing to themselves. We still honor them as Buddhas, like Never Disparaging.

2. Why are we offended? The Buddha does not mind. The Buddha will see this condition and will ask himself, "how do I make all people equal to me?" Take people as they are, and work with that, instead of being disappointed in them not being who we want them to be.

We mind, we are shocked, perhaps because as part of our practice, of inscribing a reverence for the dharma in our heart, we project onto these pieces of paper great meaning and respect. Because the Buddha is not readily accessible to us, we take this teaching tool and turn it into a surrogate for the Buddha, an expedient embodiment of the Buddha, a conjured Buddha so that we can feel like we are performing our practices in the Buddha's presence. But really, things like this ought to remind us, its just a piece of paper and not the real abode of the Buddha. That in truth, wherever we go, whatever we do, we are in the Buddha-verse, that we are actually in that world represented in the mandala at all times. The real Gohonzon is this reality. Do you feel shocked when someone burns a map of your town or a picture of your house?

are you sure it isn't conformation bias?

This morning I was reading the Gosho entitled "On the Causation of the Ten Worlds" and I was profoundly inspired by Nichiren's teaching of it. Reading this and other threads I was inspired to respond by my understanding of this Gosho.

Here is my understanding of the appearance of Nichiren and significance of the appearance of Gohonzon in the Latter Day of the Law.

Nichiren teaches that there are two ways to attain Buddhahood. One must either encounter the Buddha in person or one must encounter the teaching of the Lotus Sutra. The teaching of the Lotus Sura by all counts is even superior to the appearance of a Buddha itself because as Nichiren states, the Lotus Sutra is the mother of all Buddhas. This is the most important point.

Secondly a Buddha's appearance is not greater than the appearance of the Lotus Sutra itself because whether a Buddha appears or does not appear so long as one encounters and practices the Lotus Sutra one is assured to attain Buddhahood.

Thirdly, all "apearances" of Buddhas are by their very nature the manifestation of the three bodies. So whether one argues that this Buddha or that Buddha is the true Buddha is frankly irrelevant because all appearances of Buddhas are by their very nature the appearance of the true Buddha. There is no other way for any Buddha to qualify as "a Buddha" and for such a teaching to lead people to enlightenment. If the teaching does not lead to enllightenment then it is not the teaching of a Buddha, the Buddha or any Buddha.

Fourth, all Buddhas only teach the Lotus Sutra as the way to enlightenment. The Lotus Sutra is always taught in its two forms, as the comparative wonderousness or myo and the absolute wonderousness or myo. This explains the relationship between the manifest or theoretical doctrine (Hon ga Myo) and the source or essential doctrine (Ho nin Myo).

Fifth, when a Buddha appears in the world this sets off a three part time frame known as the former, middle and latter days of the law. A Buddha of the fomer day always performs what is known as the eight phases of a Buddhas advent in the world. This is known as entering Tushita heaven, the highest of the heavens in the realm of desire. The Buddha then enters the mothers womb, is born and then sets forth the various turnings of the wheel of the law, the provisional and true teaching and then enters nirvana.

Sixth, a Buddhas entering the world sets off the three periods. Once a Buddha enters nirvana this thereby begins the start of the former day of the law. Those who could not attain Buddhahood during the Buddhas life time are then reborn and through the provisional wisdom of comparative wonderousness or myo are thereby able to attain Buddhahood through the seed of Buddhahood brought to fruition by the provisional teachings. Nichiren says that this is entirely due to the "three fourths of merit " the Buddha has left behind in the saha world.

Seven, in all cases, the essential source of all good fortune and the basis of all true awakening is the true enlightenment of all Buddhas that is disclosed in the "Life Span" chapter of the Lotus Sutra. This doctrine sets fourth the true relationship and oneness of comparative myo and absilute myo. Here the true all encompassing meditation and wisdom of all Buddhas is disclosed and planted in the Saha world. However the true "measure" of the Buddha's enlightenment is the fact that the true purpose for the disclosing of the Buddha's source of enlightenment taught through the sixteenth chapter is actualy left for that far off time of "fear and evil" known as the evil filled Latter day of the Law; a time when the Buddha's law is "obscured and lost" and a time when "adherents to my law will be lost in quarrels and disputes", "when hinayana attacks mahayana and provisional mahayana attacks true mahayana". Here is where things get really complicated, especially for those who lack essential faith and harbor doubts in their hearts.

Eighth, in this respect the appearance of the Votary of the Lotus Sutra in the latter day of the law is the most profound function of the Buddha's law and provides the true purpose for the Buddhas advent in the world, whether of the fomer, middle or latter days of the law. This is the most important point. Those who do not understand this point wil not attain Buddhahood in this lifetime. This may sound harsh but this is supported by the logic of true Buddhism.

The logic of true Buddhism is that "from the start I have pledged to make all people equal to me and by now the pledge that I have made has been fullfiled". The true meaning of this passage found in the second chapter of the Lotus Sutra can be understood only through Nichiren's teaching. This is explained though many of Nichiren's writings but the most important are the ten major writings of Nichiren. The writings which I find that explain this principle of the advent of the Votary of the Lotus Sutra are the "Four Stages of Faith and Five Stages of Practice", "The Entity of the Mystic law", "The True Object of Worship for Observing the Mind...", "The Opening of the Eyes", "On the Correct Teaching the Peace of the Land....", "The Causation of the Ten Worlds" , "The Teachings affirmed by all Buddhas throughout the three times..." and numerous others. This is because these teachings reveal the true law of Ichinen Sanzen or mutual possession of the ten worlds, thousand factors and three thousand realms in a single moment of life.

Therefore the appearance of the scroll of the Gohonzon of the Lotus Sutra in the Latter Day of the Law itself is none other than the fullfillment of prophesy and the manifestation of the Buddha's transcendental wisdom as taught in the 21st chapter of the Lotus Sutra. It is the teaching of incomparable wondrousness and the teaching "most suitable to be spread abroad". In the Gosho "Enlightenment of Plants", Nichiren, the Votary of the Lotus Sutra and the Buddha in the Latter Day of the Law who made his advent in this world explains that the banner of propogation is the Gohonzon itself and that the physical Gohonzon itself is therefore the oneness of the Buddha and the Law. In this view the physical Gohonzon itself contains the manifested properties of the three thousand realms in a single moment of extistence and becomes the place where all Buddhas enter nirvana. All Gohonzon's when understood with this wisdom are the true object of devotion for observing the one true mind of Buddhahood.

Therefore in my view, the Gohonzon itself is the manifestation of the oneness of the Buddha and the Law in this period of the Latter day of the Law and is a sacred scroll to be venerated with all one's very being. It is a manifestation of the Buddha's transcendental power where it says, "I am always here teaching the Law", "sometimes as myself and sometimes as others", and also "How can I quickly enable all to attain the Body of a Buddha".

There is no accident why the teaching of Bodhisattva Never Disparaging in the Latter Day of the Buddha Iono's Law and the Teaching of the Buddha's Transcendental Powers are taught back to back in the 28 chapter Lotus Sutra. The Buddha of this here saha world in the latter day of the law is none other than Nichiren himself and the Gohonzon is also the same Buddha. To the extent that I endeavor to practice this way I am also this same Buddha who teaches the one supreme way for attaining Buddhahood in this lifetime. Let it be said that the true teacher and true student are one and the same lifetime after lifetime. "If a teacher has a good disciple, both will attain Buddhahood".

That's how I observe the appaearance and function of the Honorable Object for Observing Ones own Mind of Buddhahood in the Fifth Five Hundred Year Period of the Buddha's Pari-Nirvana.

Gassho
Issueing the Lion's Roar
with great passion
deep abiding gratitude
and tears of amrita
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo
Rencho,
Votary of the Lotus Sutra
Disciple of
Shakyamuni Buddha,
Nichiren, Nikko, Nichimoku
ALL true Followers
Three Presidents of the SGI.

I am taking your thorough introduction to the sectarian debate folder to attempt to correct your errors and misunderstandings.

Illarazza disciple of Sakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin

no, you miss the point. conformation bias is irrelevant here.

Hi everyone, how are you....I'm doing well...



I had read something about Tina Turner being into Buddhism. Sometimes famous people being into Buddhism can help get others interested in Buddhism, interested in the actual practice.

I use to watch Dr. Who on American Public Broadcasting Station more than then some 14 years ago. So the Tom Baker Dr. Who character would often travel around and try to help according to the extent of his ability and discipline. How about Buddha Gotama as the ultimate and practical real life realization of walking around and talking with people and helping them. This highest consummation, refereed to himself as the supreme physician in Sela Sutta, Discourse to Sela #92 from the Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha.(available free online from vipassana.info) This discourse also appears in Sutta Nipata, a collection in which every selection includes some poetry. One translator of Sutta Nipata, the Venerable Suddhatissa resided some time in the London Buddhist Vihara in England which I had a nice little visit to. I have a paperback copy of his translation.

Sincerely,



Bhikkhu English1527

Well i can totally dig your bent here English...I actually think Jesus Christ is the same guy as Gotama...

Hi!!!

I wonder why Tina Turner (and her sons) left the SGI more than ten years ago but the SGI still touts her as a wonderful example of the benefit of SGI Buddhism? They don't do that with me. Quite the contrary, they use every opportunity to point out my great misfortune at having left the organization. That sounds like the World of Animality [sucking up to the powerful while attacking the weak and defenseless). I am very weak and defenseless since having left the SGI. I am afraid to cross the street, never leave the house, no longer answer my phone and my three year old bullies me into buying her ice cream and jelly apples.

Bonten

I neither know that Tina Turner has left SGI , nor have I witnessed her been promoted as an exanple of what can be achieved - except by her own explicit portrayal in the film 'What Has Love Got To Do With It".



Don't they all ? Let's blame the SGI




You obviously have a very sad life my friend and manifestly need some help that you cannot receive here. I sincerely hope that you may find it.

Try chanting in conjunction with seeking professional guidance , it will help.

Someone criticizing others just because they don't happen to believe the same thing is more than sad.

It didn't appear to me as though ha-ha yana was criticizing this person, so much as expressing concern at the circumstances the person had found him/herself in. Judging from the tone of the post, it is certainly possible that the person was using sarcasm, though I'm sure we all know that can often be difficult to detect through text.

In any case, I did not seem as though ha-ha yana was criticizing simply because of a difference in beliefs.

Saying someone elses life is sad just because they differ in their opinions is not only divorced from reality in that they have no idea how this persons life is, it is also arrogant and baseless.

If on the other hand there is knowledge of how this persons life is, and it is as bad as the description, then it warrants attention. However, since this board is impersonal, I don't think this is the case.

Thank you for your wisdom Krisande

I was/am indeed concerned for the person Bonten, who on face value seems to be in a pitiful state that in reality has nothing to do with wherever she/he might have practiced. My only wish is that Bonten finds the help that she/he so desperately seems to need.

I did wonder about the sarcasm/surrealistic aspect, especially the comment about being bullied by the three year old. Which I do hope wasn't a serious comment as I'm afraid that did amuse me and it'd be a relief to know that it was intended to have that effect

However, that aside , for the time being we can only take on face value what is presented before us.

Right intentions, borne from the heart, in posting this ?

This discussion is now at an end - unless by personal message.

markp, please apportion a modicum of respect as befits my wishes.

I saw nothing which insinuated that the comments had any basis in what the person believed. I think this may have been a misconception on your part, as ha-ha yana seemed to to confirm what I said, as he was commenting on the description presented.

Also, ha-ha yana (and any other members here), feel free to call me Kris

Reading comprehension is fundamental. Spin is what you're doing.

Damn some of you dudes on here are so quick to bite back or claim that you have been wronged yourselves when people disagree with your thoughts or opinions. But to me the above is just patronising to the max. I hardly ever post on this board anymore coz it is squat help at all. I am bored of the board too much of the time. There is hardly any harmony, and it hasn't really evolved or moved on since i joined. The same moans I had then are the same as now.

I am the best, no you are the best, no we are the best, no my sects the best, no you are wrong, no you are right, I read it this way, you read it that way, my guy say's this, but my guy say's that!!!!!!!!!!! ad infinitum!!!!!!!!!ad nauseua!!!!!!!!!!

World peace only as long as you agree with me, so who's up for that deal then! Not me!

Peace out brothers and sisters!
Equality means equality does it not!

This thread is no longer constructive and is now closed