As you aptly demonstrate. Also, citing Stone as a source without a direct quote is just a bit shabby. You lob bombs, I link pictures. On at least 95% of Nichiren's Honzons, there is simply no way one can read Nichiren's name as part of the central inscription. That is just a hard fact.

This bs about 'the other side' is also utter nonsense, By 1346, Nikko's own lineage was divided into at least 5 feuding factions. There never were 2 sides. There were more like 50 sides. There are 4 to 8 or 9 different Nikko lineage temples that claim to own the special Gohonzon for the Kaidan. 4 to 6 of these of these bear the words:

Hanging Up {懸} Honmonji {本門寺} Regarded {可為} 10,000 years {万年} priceless jewel {重宝} is {也} in Nikko's hand.

I've used the quotes already and you've seen them. In fact, you objected to my use of Stone when the quotes were present. People just don't like that Stone can be used against them as well as for them.

I also see only two sides, Taisekiji and all the others. I could care less what squabbles they have with each other.

I will give you that Nichiren doesn't have to be down the middle, but it has to be included in the Gohonzon as do the Four Boddisatvas, and it is just as significant as the Four Boddisatvas.
Trifling with the True Object of Devotion is not the road I would go down. Instead of studying the Gohonzon, which I don't have a problem with, why don't you meditate while chanting on why Nichiren is significant. I use that technique all the time and it always works, albeit sometimes it takes a while.

For me, Rencho's beautiful assessment was born from practice and I give more weight to it than any assessment born from the cold perspective of scholarship.

So, basically you are saying that you ignore all the evidence and information you read and never change your opinion? Even though we know that within the Fuji lineage there have been any number of movements, splits, and regroupings thru the years there is only two sides? The same goes for all the other lineages as well- lots of movement over the years.




Because Nichiren never taught this method in any of writings and it is certainly not taught in the Lotus Sutra to meditate on Nichiren. What Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra does teach is to uphold the Lotus Sutra above all else- uniting Nichiren with the Lotus Sutra doesn't accomplish that aim.

No, I have examined the evidence and reached a different conclusion. I don't believe all the dogma associated with Nichiren Shoshu and have repeatedly said that on this board. This so called evidence doesn't support any conclusion in most cases and over the years most of it has been successfully refuted. The entire debate is illogical at its basis and I have decided not to participate in it for the most part, and that is why I won't go into detail anymore and provide quotes. It is all out there for anyone to find.



I never said to meditate on Nichiren, but to meditate on the significance of Nichiren on the Gohonzon. And, Nichiren did teach that chanting was a form of meditation, which I can attest to as the most effective form of meditation from my own personal experience.

Of course I have done that. I think the significance of his name is that he is part of the lineage chart, along with Nagarjuna, T'ient T'ai, Mia-lo, & Dengyo. He also fulfilled the mission of the messenger of Chapter 16.

The presence of his seal generally means that it is an original Nichiren, or an exact replica of an original. If a Minister, such as Nikko, wrote one of their own design, they usually included Nichiren's name, but not his koa seal. There are exceptions of course. But generally, if there is a seal on an original not done by Nichiren, it would be the minister's seal? I think.

And that alone earns the title of DaiShonin. This is no ordinary Shonin we talk about! This man single handedly proved Buddhism as a true religion, because without his advent all of Buddhism could be said to be false. Nichiren's advent as Boddisatva Jogyo is huge when you look at the totality.

That is another non-starter, like Gohonzon versus Honzon; or Nam' versus Namu.

Look at Nichiren {日蓮} Shonin {聖人}. Then look at Nikko {日興} Shonin { 上人}

Shonin {聖人} = Muni. That is the same as in Skakyamuni. Muni means Sage-Saint, It is a higher title than Mahacharya or Daishi {大師}, meaning Geat Teacher. Daishonin {大聖聖} is really kind of redundant. A Sage/Saint is already Great. Sho {聖} means saint in Japan and China 聖 On reading: sho Kun reading: hijiri English: Saint


Shonin { 上人} is pretty much a translation of Bhikkhu. it is an ordained person; a priest, a minister, originally a monastic. Sho {上} indicates an authority figure, an official position. 上 On reading sho, jo Kun reading: ue, -ue, uwa-, kami, a(geru) English: top, up, above, higher, imperial

人On-Reading: jin, nin Kun reading: hito, -ri, English: human being, person.

"The Japanese imperial court also awarded Nichiren the honorific designations Nichiren Daibosatsu (日蓮大菩薩; "Great Bodhisattva Nichiren") and Rissho Daishi (立正大師; "Great Teacher Risshō); the former title was granted in 1358 and the latter, in 1922." -- Wiki

|Nichiren, the founder of Nichiren Buddhism, was reputedly the greatest player of his day. He introduced the method of documenting games for study, and thus one of his own games is said to be the first recorded go game in history" -- wiki

The difference is the debt of gratitude. Here again we see cold scholarship instead of heartfelt gratitude.

Of course, the two are mutually exclusive. You can not deal with facts, attack the person with fuzzy emotional nonsense. What on earth does that have to do with it? Does clipping Namu as Nam' show more gratitude? Does adding an extra extra, and rather trite Japanese honorific, to Honzon, show more gratitude?

The reason it is another non-starter is that the other schools call Nichiren both Shonin {Saint/Sage} and Daishonin, and they mean virtually the same thing. They also call him the other Shonin, which is he was a Minister. Nikko always used Nichiren Shonin {Saint-Sage}. I guess Nikko had no gratitude at all.

gassho

robin

You are making absolutely no sense to me, so there is not much I can say. Perhaps your facts and logic are too far over more head? Other than circular logic, all I can sense is hostility and resentment seething from your words Mark. I really did try to grasp your points; I have no turf to defend. I do have other things to do.

with Gassho

robin

There is simply no credible evidence that Nichiren named a sole successor, would have, could have, or should have. All you toss out are circular arguments. Even if he did, the lineage was broken so long ago it is really academic at this point. I do not sit up all night wondering if Nikko was a a sole successor, or one of 6. It strikes me as bizarre that anyone would think it is important, other than an interesting academic matter. I am a lot more interested in who will be the next Illni assistant coach.

The only issue I had with Rencho is the strange and erroneous notion that the center of the Gohonzon should be read as Namu Myoho Renge Kyo Nichiren. I offered my views on that and gave some examples. Then you want to jump and reopen mindless debates that you already lost. I really do not have time to take the bait.

Let us stay on the topic of this thread, whatever that was. That Nichiren''s seal looks like a leaf? I have read a couple interesting theories on what it means. I think it represents the sun and a lotus. Some thing it is based a Siddham symbol. Do you have any thoughts?

gassho

robin

Greetings,

This thread is for the discussion of long standing sectarian debates between various viewpoints found in Nichiren Buddhism. As many threads appear to devolve into debates concerning the accuracy of one lineage over another, historical and doctrinal questions tend to dominate unrelated thread topics.

If you have issues you would like to raise, feel free to do so here. However, all comments must follow E-Sangha guidelines and are subject to the moderators as per the normal rules. Not only can you add to the thread, but also other topics which belong here will be moved accordingly. Please do not open new threads which directly address this issue- use this thread. Please keep this guideline in mind when posting:

7) No personal attacks or sect bashing is allowed.

It is my hope that by implementing this thread that it will allow for discussion of these topics in a central thread and prevent other threads from being overloaded from unrelated topics.

Thank You,
Shikimyo

The situation I am observing here is quite profound in the sense that the conflicts between views among propnents are truly rather deep seated. I have tried to give some hints in my follow up replys on the thread in question in the hope that those who have the propensity to see things the way I se them can see clear to what my statements seek to imply. So let me continue clearing some things up or at least stating things as i see them.

1) Robby, when I was referring to the squiggly line at the base of Nichiren's name it was not the Zai Gohan?? as I now understand you have been refering in your remarks. Yet however, being no expert on the difference between that seal and Nichiren's name that is placed at the base of the Daimoku itself in the Nichikan Gohonzon I did not make a big issue of it. But when I began to observe the form of this seal as opposed to the form of Nichiren's name at the base of the Daimoku on the Nichikan Gohonzon I began sensing that you are actually referring to something else. In my own observation, the squiggly line I was referring to, basing this on my own assumptions and frame of reference, is the character for "Ren" of "Renge". On my "Nichikan" Gohonzon, this squiggly line to which I refer is drawn twice as we go down the center of Gohonzon. First when we reach Ren of Renge Kyo and then below when we see Nichiren's name (on the Nichikan Gohonzon). This squiggly line to which I refer has the form of a line that goes down slight and then circles clockwise and then heads to the right of the person facing Gohonzon. For me it looks like a base line upon which all the other character's sit. I had no idea of course that my little "poetic journey of faith" reference would generate such a conflict of views.

Now, ....... all the examples offered by Davy on the Wilkepedia site are all of original Nichiren Gohonzons and just as you say Robby rather than have Nichiren's name just below the Daimoku there is simply the Daimoku along with the rest of the Ceremony in the Air surrounding the Daimoku and Nichiren's seal to the bottom, in most cases just left of center, and in a few cases just below in the center and, on rare exceptions, to the right of persons facing it. So be it.

My theory of why Nichiren's name ends up in the center of Gohonzon turns on the notion of temporality or chronology itself coupled with the principle of the relationship between the True Buddha and provisional or emenation Buddhas. Therefore, just as we find that the manner in which disciples and followers of Shakyamuni reverred him as an object (after his death) differed among the first 20 divisions as they branched off of the Theravada and Mahasanghika divisions, we today are among those that understand (or at least are in acceptance of) that in the end, the mandate to follow the Law and not the person was brought to fruition by the writing of the 28 chapter Lotus Sutra. And when this itself became a source of contraversy Nichiren appeared and endeavored to resolve the divisive confusion by bringing forth the essence of the Lotus Sutra, the seven character Daimoku itself as the highest object of devotion in the Buddhist universe.

This part is not that contrtaversial since so far we are only referring to an impersonal universal Law. However, is it possible to separate the Law from the person? And therefore it begs the question, who is the person, ie, personification of the Law, that should be reverred as the true teacher of the Law for all mankind. This is a vast and profound subject in itself. It is very complex. Also, this question, if correctly resolved can eliminate much rancor and strife among followers of Nichiren, not to mention the other schools of Buddhism who either follow Shakyamuni if not other Buddha's and Bodhisattvas.

In my own estimation, I believe, just as Nichiren states in his writings, that it is best to measure the value of the cause by measuring the value of the manifest effects. All phenomena which make appearance in the realm of interrelated forms are essentially manifest effects. This is why the principle of the ten factors begins with appearance, ends with manifest effects and their eternal abiding and consistency from beginning to end. Since appearance and manifest effects are essentially the same thing the internal cause of all appearances or manifest effects is the law of Ichinen sanzen itself. This Law of Ichinen Sanzen originates with the law of intent. The force of being or becoming which lies in the inner most interior of the heart is the original cause. The principle of Nichiren Buddhism therefore is based on the principle that originally all living beings are purely the Law of the simultaneity of cause and effect and this itself is the wisdom of all Buddhas and the Buddha nature itself. What distiinguishes, good from evil, joy from suffering and karmic outflows is the law of ignorance and enlightenment. Ignorance leads to suffering and enlightenment leads to true joy and heartfelt satisfaction.

When seen from the standpoint of the Buddhist philosophy Nichiren refers to this Law of Truth and Wisdom as the basis of the originally unadorned Three Bodies of the Buddha's life. The principle of the originally unadorned Three bodies of the Buddha's Life establishes that the mind (body of wisdom), the body (temporary appearance) and the environment(mutual inclusion of all phenomena) are eternal and forever abide as the Law of Myoho Renge Kyo.

When one reaches this mode of understanding, the purpose and principle of Buddhist practice is released from any and all schools. Who gives a ******** whether one reveres Shakyamuni, Nichiren, Nikken, Dainichi, Amida, Avalokiteshvara or the devil and the deep blue sea. What matters is what kind of person are you? How is your mother and your family doing. Are you doing your best to be the best person you can be and lead others to the path which leads to success? Have you reached a true level of inner freedom from fear in your life? Can you take the actions necessary to bring peace to a troubled world? Are you a person of courage and good will? Have you conquered the moment of death free from ontological beliefs and know for certain how to set your frame of mind at the moment of death? I believe that these are some of the fundamental questions that will allow us to create good karma in the world. But hey, if your answer is no, dont feel so bad. I'm just groping through the darkness of my own karma myself just trying my best how ever best that may be.

Gassho

Dude, I'm not trying to bash you or hate you, or anything else, but you are very obtuse if you cannot understand basic logic. The logic I have stated how many times to you?, is not circular logic, but straightforward, premise/conclusion. If you want to be a scholar in any type or religion you need to learn logic, because logic was created by Aristotle in order to verify the credibility of these types of arguments. If I can find my book I'll mail it to you.



Did I say that? No. I didn't say anyone was chief priest. All I said was that the argument that Nikko Shonin was not chief priest is not conclusive based on logic. And furthermore, the argument that Nichiren did not appoint a chief priest is similarly not conclusive. In fact, based on the history of Buddhism and Nichirens own words, that argument is very hard to support.

And, BTW Logic is not a sectarian issue!

What you call logic is not what I call logic. You mostly rationalize things, and ignore the facts in front of your face. I am more of empiricist anyway. The world does not operate by logic. The history of Buddhism is I can not name a single great teacher who appointed a successor. The Buddha did not. No one appointed Nichiren. Who appointed Nagarajuna? The whole lineage thing was made up to impress the Chinese.

By your logic, whoever was Zasu of Tendai in Nichiren's time should have been THE MAN. Who was it?

Facts in themselves are only facts. Here's a couple of facts for you.

P1: Skyscrapers are tall.

P2: All skyscrapers are buildings.

Conclusion: All buildings are tall.

This is in the book on logic. The conclusion is false even though the facts are true. Why? Because the premises do not fully support the conclusion.

Your facts do not fully support your conclusions, period! You can't prove one thing conclusively, and neither has anyone in fifteen years of this moronic debate. And, no I didn't just call you a moron, I called the debate moronic.

And, BTW I have already shown the logical inference of rank like five times. It's like beating a dead horse.

Ever really read Stones work? She always hedges on her conclusions because she knows that they cannot be proven completely. That is scholarship. Making hard conclusions based on inconclusive evidence is not scholarship.

You have not being paying attention. Right now, I really do not have time to even discuss this. There is simply way too much on my plate. I am going with the overwhelming weight of the evidence on the successor issue. You have shown me nothing to even hedge on that point.

That said, attachment to fixed views is one of Kleshas of delusion; it ties the mind in knots. I am willing and able to change my views if I see adequate evidence. I am capable of following logic. I simply do not agree with your logic, I do not buy your premises, and the conclusions do not follow. This does not mean I am illogical or stupid.
We look at the same evidence, but see different things.

Here is bit from WND2:

"On the Protection of the Nation" in WND vol. II p. 136
"Since the Buddha departed from this world, however, it has become difficult to find teachers such as these. ... How, then, can we free ourselves from the sufferings of birth and death?"

Nichiren's response to this question is: "In this latter age there
are true good friends to be found. They are none other than the Lotus and Nirvana sutras.

Question: It is very common for a person to act as a good friend. But is there any proof that the Dharma can be such a friend?

Answer: It is common enough for a person to act as such a friend. But in this latter age, no true friend is to be found, and there is ample proof that the Dharma can act as such a friend."

Rencho,

Good point. The seal is not on the Nichikan, Just his name. So yiu must be talking about part of the character for Kyo? 経.

Robby

The info you provided is not clear to me. It would be great if you could provide clear and specific details on the characters you provided.

Robby


In the above you have provided seven blocks of characters. There are two blocks which you pulled out, # 5 and #7. Of the two blocks character # 5 is the one that I have been referring to as the "floating Leaf". On the Nichikan Gohonzon this character appears twice. Once within the Daimoku and again at the very bottom of the Gohonzon. Not knowing a damn thing about how to read these charcaters I assumed, since it appears twice that this must be the charcater for Ren of Renge Kyo and Nichi-Ren.

Appreciate any advice you can give me. And also, lets stop the bickering. We all got bigger fish fry.

Rencho

Rencho -

You are exactly right, that is the character for Ren or Lotus.

I will. I just have a lot to do. I shal fix that picture up better by monday. The only thing I can not do is insert kanji text with Gimp or Paint.net. I might see if I can add some fonts to the software. I can insert roman text, and photos of kanji.

robin

Okay Robby, but it appears that Engyo has approved of the way I understood the characters to read where the squiggly line turning clockwise to the right is the character for ren of Renge. Most interesting. This is very good because in all respects it reconfirms the correct basis for the thread which I started based upon my contemplation on the upward vertical reading of the characters of the Daimoku. In certain respects Engyos confirmation also nullifies the sectarian direction that this discussion has taken given that you proceeded upon the assumption of Nichiren's seal and its various interpretations vis a vie Nichiren''s true identity. That's clearly a different issue all together and it has unfortunately detracted from my discussion. Not that I dont appreciate your efforts. Your scholarship is certainly welcome but my discussions was persuing a more contemplative course.

Gassho

On second thought, I may have overstated when I said "nullifies sectarian issues" above. Fact is, I am well aware that even the very Gohonzon used by SGI members, one produced by Nichikan, is not accepted by either shu, shoshu or even Robbin. Such is the saha world. Fraught with confusion and disagreements.

Hi, Rencho -


For what its worth, here is my understanding of the objections many Nichiren Shu folk (in general) have with the Nichikan Gohonzon.

It has nothing to do with the Gohonzon image itself; it has to do with the Taisekiji/Fuji School doctrine of Nichiren as Original Buddha. Seeing this doctrine as something added later and not taught by Nichiren, the problem becomes that Nichikan inscribed this image to uphold and spread that doctrine, so accepting it would imply acceptance of that doctrine as well. This basic objection would apply to any Omandala image from Taisekiji or the Fuji lineages that support the Nichiren as Original Buddha doctrine.

This objection will also be interpreted or implemented by different Nichiren Shu folk in different ways. Very few would enshrine such an Omandala in their home altar. More would probably be willing to chant before one (myself for one). I know very few (if any?) who would object to a believer using one if he/she belongs to one of the schools for which these are normal. If someone decides to become a Nichiren Shu adherent it is customary to exchange the Nichikan for another Omandala. Of course, if someone was joining the SGI from another Nichiren group, it would also be customary to exchange their Omandala, would it not?

This is offered in the spirit of understanding rather than argument. I hope it can be received that way.

As a point of clarity, and I know most know this already. Nichiren Shoshu is only against the fact that the Gohonzon in question was altered in the copy, wherein the specific dedication was removed. That, and they probably don't like that SGI is using one of their Gohonzon.

My point of view is that this is petty and they should not be bothered, but really should be honored by SGI's use of a Taisekiji Gohonzon.



This is something I don't understand at all. I would not give up my original Gohonzon for anything, much less abandon the sect I began chanting with. It is an issue of karma and respect to me.

Mark -

I agree it is an issue of karma and respect. For me it came down to self-respect, when I had seen/heard/experienced things that would no longer allow me to respect my original affiliation. This was a personal decision; it is one each must reach or not on their own.

Were you not once an NSA member? I seem to recall that, but could be mistaken.

Yes, and I did quit NSA for probably many of the same reasons you did. When I found out years later I could practice with the priesthood and not have to rejoin SGI it was a no brainer for me, and I have found that I have grown much more than I ever would given SGI's penchant for chanting for things. Never knew we weren't supposed to chant for things before.

Thanks Engyo. I see nothing untoward in your friendly comments.

MarkP and Engyo.

Thanks for your comments. I am also in accordance with them and believe that "having lived" a successful life is the most important thing.

Actually, Nichikan's transcription is based on those of Nikko & Nichimoku. I personally have no problem with it. I do not agree with Taisekiji's secret teachings though.

I just finished a rather detailed study of the Nikko Monryu Gohonzons.

It starts here:
Gohonzon Study; The Blessing and Curse Phrases

These phrases are definitely on transcriptions of Great Mandalas from Taisekiji, such as the SGI Nichikan, the Nittatsu, and the Nikken. The inscriptions are located in the top row, on either side of the Daimoku, outside of, or flanking, the two Buddhas and four Bodhisattvas. On the right side of the mandala, or your left if you are facing the mandala, reading from the center to the left, it would be Shakyamini Buddha, Jyogyo Bodhisattva, Anryugyo Bodhisattva, and the blessing or gain phrase. On the left side of the mandala, or your right if you are facing the mandala, reading from the center to the right, it would be Taho Nyorai, Jogyo Bodhisattva, Muhengyo Bodhisattva, and the curse or loss phrase. These are also often said to appear on the Camphor Wood Yashiro Kunishige Dai-Mandara, a. k. a. Taisekiji Daigohonzon, a. k. a. Ita {Plank or Board} Mandala.

The following erroneous claim was made, several years ago, by a "Kenpon Hokke" web site, not by me, and I now disagree with the claim:

According to a Kenpon Hokke group , "None of the known gohonzons inscribed by Nichiren has those phrases" and, "Such phrases never appeared in any other Nichiren gohonzon, and are incongruous with the nature of the gohonzon. (These are the phrases referring to "gain" and "loss", on either side of the SGI/NST honzons)."

This is contradicted by the Kuden texts, commentaries, the Goibun or Gosho of Nichiren,the Suttas, and the Sutras:

<snipped>

At any rate, I am confident that the Blessing & Curse Phrases, or at least similar phrases, can also be found in Sutras, as well as Shastras {{論( Ron, Commentaries}. Also, in fact, these do appear to be on at least six authenticated and published Nichiren Mandalas. In his rebuttal of Kempon Hokke's claims, The late Reverend Nittatsu of Taisekiji asserted that there are six {6] Nichiren originals with these inscriptions. I am fairly certain I have confirmed this. These include:

* Mandala # 053, inscribed in August 1278 and housed at [Shizuoka Prefecture Shizuoka City Shimizu] Kaicho-ji, conferral to {授与之} Nitcho {日頂} Shonin {上人}; one of the Six {6} Senior Ministers {六老僧 -- Rokuroso}.
* Mandala #60, inscribed on February 2, 1279 and housed at Juryo-ji of Kuwana, conferral to {授与之} Child of Shakya {釈子} Nichimoku {日目}, who was Nikko's successor at Taisekiji.
* Mandala # 65, inscribed in July 1279 and housed at Kocho-ji of Okamiya, conferral to {授与之} Shamon [Wandering Monk] {沙門} Nippo {日法}.

The others are the Mandalas numbered 54, 57, and 59.


Gohonzon Study; The Blessing and Curse Phrases

Gohonzon Study; Nikko Monryu; The Blessing and Loss Phrases

In this segment, we examine an image of one original Nichiren Mandala
Honzon which bears these inscriptions. We shall also look at images of
Nine {9} images of Nikko Monryu Honzons. These include:

* Two by Nikko Shonin {1246-1333}' from 1308 & 1332.
* One by Nichimoku Shonin {1260-1333} from 1326.
* Two by Iyo Nichidai {1294-1394}, who was Nikko's direct successor at Omosu/Kityama Honmonji; and the founder of Nishiyama Honmonji.
* One by Nichimyo, the third Abbot of Omosu/Kitayama Honmonji.
* Two by the Twenty-sixth High Priest of Taisekiji Nichiren Shoshu, Nichikan Shonin (1665-1726} (not the same mandala that SGI issues)
* One by Nichio, their 56th High Priest.

To review, on the Taisekji Mandala Gohonzons, in general, the blessing phrase is located on the Mandala's right side, or your left facing; while the 'curse phrase' is on the opposite side. The Blessing Phrase reads, 'U kuyo sha fuku ka jugo; {有供養者福過十號}; Those who make offering shall cultivate merit exceeding the Ten Honorific Titles of the Buddha." The curse phrase reads "Nyaku noran sha zu ha shichibun; {若惱亂者頭破七分}; those who are hateful and annoying shall have their heads split into seven (7} pieces.'

Continue reading "Gohonzon Study; Nikko Monryu; The Blessing and Loss Phrases"

Fair enough Robby.

Indeed Robby. Thanks for sharing on such an important topic. I immediately call to mind the Dharani uttered by the Mother of Ten Demon Daughters as she made her pledge to protect votaries of the Lotus Sutra. NIchiren himself bet his life on this phrase.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

I have some more material on various Gohonzon protocols for those who are interested. I am kind of chilling right now, after an intense quest that has ended well, at least for now.

One thing, I have come across some samples of Nikko Monryu Mandalas that do not have the gain & Loss inscriptions. These have the Nichiren Zaigohan signature.

Also, I might have some more pics of unpublished Nichiren mandalas.

Here we present dozens of Nichiren's quotes in support of the identity of Shakyamuni Buddha as the Original Buddha and subject of Nichiren's veneration. We have omitted many dozens of redundant quotes and a few that superficially contradict the overwhelming vast body of Nichiren's thought. These very few instances in the Taisekiji translations in which Nichiren fails to clarify the identity of the Original Buddha are clarified in other more reliable translations of Nichiren Daishônin's writings, not readily available to SGI or NST members.

"Present within our lives is the Lord Shakyamuni who obtained the three enlightened properties of life before gohyaku-jintengo, the Original Buddha since time without beginning." (MW vol. 1, The True Object of Worship, pg. 65)

"Demonstrating ten great mystic powers the Buddha (Shakyamuni) transferred Namu Myoho renge Kyo to the four great bodhisattvas" (Ibid. pg. 77)

"Shakyamuni is the original teacher for all people as well as their sovereign and their parent" (MW vol. 1, Admonitions Against Slander, pg. 166)

"It is the object of worship which perfectly depicts Lord Shakyamuni in the Treasure Tower" (MW vol. 1, The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon, pg. 212)

"Shakyamuni is the father, sovereign and teacher of all other Buddhas and all gods, of the whole assembly of men and heavenly beings and of all sentient beings." (MW vol. 1, Letter to Nikke, pg. 257)

"But because of this book by Horen, this Senchaku Shu, the Lord Buddha Shakyamuni is forgotten."(MW vol. 2, Rissho Ankoku Ron, pg. 23)

"The Lord Shakyamuni who declared 'I alone can save them,' at a time even more distant than gohyaku-jintengo, is none other than each of us." (MW vol. 2, IZU Exile, pg. 55)

"One should know that the Enlightened One, the Buddha, is a Great Teacher for all living beings, a Great Eye for them, a Great Pillar, a Great Helmsman, a Great Field of Plenty."(MW vol. 2, Opening of the Eyes, pg. 77)

"The doctrines that the Buddha taught over a period of fifty years number eighty thousand... The eight years during which he preached the Lotus Sutra he called the time when he 'now must reveal the truth'. Thus Taho Buddha came forth from
the earth to testify that 'All that you have expounded is the truth,' and the Buddhas that are emanations of the Original Buddha gathered together and extended their tongues up to the Brahma-heaven in testimony." (MW vol. 2, Ibid.,
pg. 79)

"The Buddhas of the ten directions gathered in assembly, Shakyamuni Buddha announced that 'all of these are emanations of my being." (MW vol. 2, Ibid., pg. 141)

"When Shakyamuni Buddha revealed that he had gained enlightenment in the far distant past and had since then been constantly in the world it became apparent that all the other Buddhas were emanations of Shakyamuni." (MW vol. 2, Ibid., pg. 149)

"Since the Buddha of the Ju-ryô chapter is revealed as the Eternal Buddha, it follows that the great bodhisattvas such as Monju and Miroku and the great bodisattvas from other realms are in fact disciples of Shakyamuni Buddha." (MW vol. 2, Ibid., pg. 150)

"All these beings are disciples of Shakyamuni Buddha. Since the various Buddhas themselves are emanations of Shakyamuni Buddha, it goes without saying that their disciples must be disciples of Shakyamuni. And of course the various deties of the sun, moon and stars who have dwelt in the world from countless ages in the past must likewise be disciples of Shakyamuni Buddha." (MW vol. 2, Ibid., pg. 152)

"The Lotus Sutra is nothing other than a scripture that reveals that Shakyamuni Buddha attained enlightenment at a time even more distant than gohyaku-jintengo." (MW vol. 2, Letter to the Priests of Seicho-ji, pg. 268)

"but Shakyamuni [by bestowing upon us the character myo] has granted us as many benefits as if we ourselves had fulfilled all the practices of the six paramitas. This precisely accords with his statement, "Now this threefold world is all my domain, the iving beings in it are all my children."(MW vol. 3, Letter to Nichimyo Shonin, pg. 48-49)

"Now the votaries of the Lotus Sutra are the children of Shakyamuni Buddha." (MW vol. 3, Ibid., pg. 49)

"All that you (Shakyamuni Buddha) have expounded is the truth."(MW vol. 3, Ibid. pg. 51)

"The Lord Shakyamuni assembled Taho Buddha as well as the other Buddhas, who were his own emanations, from throughout ten directions and left one great medicine-the five characters of Myoho renge Kyo for the people of the Latter Day." (MW vol. 3, The Mandala of the Mystic Law, pg. 58)

"Lord Shakyamuni treasured this Gohonzon in mind... He revealed it in the Ju-ryô chapter..." (MW vol. 3, Reply to Nii-Ama, pg. 64-65)

MW vol. 3, pg. 79, The Selection of the Time, directly under the title is written: Nichiren, disciple of Shakyamuni Buddha.
"
Yet it was not I, Nichiren who made these important pronouncements. Rather it was in all cases the spirit of Shakyamuni Buddha that had entered into my body. And at having Personally experienced this I am beside myself with joy."(MW vol. 3, Ibid., pg. 171)

"Shakyamuni Buddha, the World Honored One, declared, 'I am the foremost throughout the threefold world." (MW vol. 3, Ibid., pg. 176)

"When I was about to be beheaded, the Lord Buddha Shakyamuni took my place."
(MW vol. 3, The Supremacy of the Law, pg. 199).

"However, they are alike in that they all abandoned Shakyamuni Buddha," and in the next paragraph it states, "If there is anyone among my followers who is weak in faith and goes against what I, Nichiren, say, he will meet the same fate as did the Soga family."(MW vol. 3, The Supreme Leader of the World, pg. 237)

"I have been ceaselessly praying for your sake to the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha and the gods of the sun and moon."(MW vol. 3, Ibid.)

"Our teacher, Shakyamuni Buddha." (MW vol. 4, The Learned Shan-wu-wei, pg. 64)

"They are monks and nuns by virtue of the Lord Shakyamuni." (Ibid., pg. 65)

"There are three reasons why Shakyamuni Buddha rather than any of the other Buddhas has a relationship with all the people of the world of the saha world. First of all, he is the World Honored One, the sovereign of all the people of this saha world... The second reason is that Shakyamuni Buddha is the father and mother of all the persons in the saha world. It is proper that we should first of all pay filial respect to our own father and mother. The third reason is that Shakyamuni is the original teacher of all persons in the saha world." (Ibid., pg. 65-66)

"Yet Shakyamuni Buddha entered this saha world of ours with the title Nonin, 'He Who Can Forbear.' He is so called because he does not berate its people for the slanders they all commit but shows forbearance toward them. These, then, are the special qualities possessed by Shakyamuni Buddha, qualities that the
other Buddhas lack" (Ibid., pg. 68)

"I [Shakyamuni] alone can save them." (Ibid., pg. 69)

"For this reason, all the persons in this saha world of ours, if they detest the sufferings of birth and death and wish to have an object of veneration to which they can pay respect, should first of all fashion images of Shakyamuni Buddha... and make these their object of worship." (Ibid., pg. 69)

"Shakyamuni Buddha our father and mother, who is endowed with the three virtues of sovereign, teacher and parent, is the very one who encourages us, the people driven out by all the other Buddhas, saying, 'I alone can save them'. The debt of gratitude we owe him is deeper than the ocean, weightier than the earth, vaster than the sky. Though we were to pluck out our two eyes and place them before him as an offering until there were more eyes there than stars in the sky, though we were to strip off our skins and spread them out by the hundreds of thousands until they blanketed the ceiling of heaven, though we were to give him our tears as offerings of water and present him with flowers for the space of a hundred billion kalpas, though we were to offer him our flesh and blood for innumerable kalpas, until our flesh piled up like mountains and our blood overflowed like vast seas, we could never repay a fraction of the debt we owe to this Buddha!" (Ibid., pg. 71-72)

"All that you [Shakyamuni Buddha] have expounded is the truth." (MW vol. 4, Teaching, Practice and Proof, pg. 120)

"First, in Japan and all the other countries and throughout the world, the object of worship should, on all cases, be the Lord Shakyamuni of true Buddhism."
(MW vol. 4, Repaying Debts of Gratitude, pg. 271)

"Our merciful father, Lord Shakyamuni, said 'Rely on the Law and not upon persons."(MW vol. 5, A Sage and an Unenlightened Man, pg. 65)

"In the same volume in the Lotus Sutra, the Buddha says, 'for the sake of the Buddha way I have in countless different lands rom the beginning until now widely preached various sutras, but among them this Sutra is foremost'. This passage means that Shakyamuni Buddha has appeared in countless lands, taking different names and assuming varying life spans." (Ibid., pg. 77)

"I have dedicated my life to Shakyamuni Buddha and the Lotus Sutra, extending compassion to all living beings and rebuking slanders of the Law." (MW vol. 5, A Sage and an Unenlightened Man, pg. 107)

"When Shakyamuni Buddha in the clouds above the Sacred Mountain, in the mists of Eagle peak, summed up the essence of the doctrine and entrusted it to the bodhisattvas of the earth, what do you suppose that teaching was? It was nothing other than these five characters, the essential law;" (Ibid., pg. 110)

"I Nichiren, humble person though I am, have received Lord Shakyamuni's royal command and come to this country of Japan." (MW vole 5, The Pure and Far Reaching Voice, pg. 143)

"Shakyamuni Buddha is the lord of all buddhist teachings, the leader and teacher of all human beings." (Ibid., pg. 143)

"And among the Sutras, the Lotus Sutra is a manifestation in writing of Shakyamuni Buddha's intent; it is his voice set down in written word." (Ibid., pg. 147)

"Shakyamuni Buddha and the written words of the Lotus Sutra are two different things but their heart is one. Therefore, when you cast your eyes upon the words of the Lotus Sutra you should consider that you are beholding the living body of the Buddha Shakyamuni." (Ibid., pg. 147)

"However the Buddha recognizes each character as a golden Lord Shakyamuni.' This is the meaning of the statement that[one who is able to hold this Sutra] thereby holds the Buddha's body'. Those who practice Buddhism but adhere to distorted views destroy this loftiest of Sutras."(MW vol. 5, Reply to Soya Nyudo, pg. 164)

"The Son of Heaven utters not a single word in vain' and 'the words of the Dharma King contain no falsehood'. A wise ruler will never lie, even if it should bring about his ruin. How much less would Shakyamuni Buddha ever speak falsely!"(MW vol. 5, Good Fortune in This Life, pg. 185)

"Only the Lotus Sutra represents the wonderful teaching preached directly from the golden mouth of Shakyamuni Buddha, who is perfectly endowed with the three bodies." (MW vol. 5, Letter to Myomitsu Shonin, pg. 196)

"Shakyamuni, the Lord of Teachings, is the foremost sage in the saha world." (Ibid., pg. 199)

"As we see from these passages of scripture, Shakyamuni, with his Buddha eye, observed the situation that would prevail at the beginning of the Latter Day of the Law. If, when the age has arrived, there were to be no persons of the type the Buddha describes then the World-Honored One would be guilty of false and baseless talk. [And if that were to be the case, then] who would put faith in the theoretical and essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra, and in the doctrine of the eternally inherent Buddha Nature." (MW vol. 6, Reply to Lord Hakiri Saburo, pg. 40)

"In this way, Shakyamuni Buddha cited his own practice in the past to encourage and hearten [The Votary of the Lotus Sutra]." (Ibid. pg. 42)

"Shakyamuni summoned the four bodhisattvas and entrusted them with the five characters of Myoho renge Kyo."(MW vol. 6, Rebuking Slander of the Law, pg. 60)

"We see from the Sutra that only these four bodhisattvas had been the disciples of Shakyamuni, the Lord of Teachings, since the remote past." (Ibid., pg. 62)

Nichiren quotes Miao-lo, referring to the relationship of the bodhisattvas of the Earth to Shakyamuni, as follows; "The sons will disseminate the Law of the Father." (Ibid., pg. 62)

"The Shakyamuni of the Ju-ryô Chapter has never been depicted in any mountain temple or monastery anywhere."(Ibid., pg. 63)

"The nation of Japan today has turned its back on the Lotus Sutra and cast aside Shakyamuni Buddha." (MW vol. 6, Letter To Ichinosana Nyudo, pg. 99)

"Shakyamuni Buddha is the Parent of all living beings in this world."(Ibid., pg. 100)

"The Lord Buddha Shakyamuni is the enlightened teacher for all living beings in the country of ours. It is thanks to our teacher that we can understand who our parents are. It is owing to Shakyamuni that we can distinguish black from white."
(Ibid., pg. 100)

"It will be hard indeed to find anyone who can preach the Lotus Sutra just as it teaches in the Latter Day of the Law of Shakyamuni Buddha." (MW vol. 6, Three Tripitaka Masters, pg. 118)

"The Tathagata Shakyamuni, seated in the tower adorned with seven kinds of precious gems, entrusted the five characters of Myoho renge Kyo to Takahashi Nyudo." (MW vol. 6, Reply to Takashi Nyudo, pg. 124)

"Were it not for Shakyamuni, the lord of teachings, how could such blessings as these be bestowed." "The Hokke [Lotus] sect is the sect founded by Shakyamuni."
(MW vol. 6, How Those Initially Aspiring to the Way Can Attain Buddhahood, pg. 175)

"Therefore [the sect based on] the Lotus Sutra is known as the Buddha-founded sect and is also called the Hokke Sect." (Ibid., pg. 175)

"The various other sects were founded by bodhisattvas or teachers in the period after the Buddha had entered Nirvana. Should we now turn our backs upon the Buddha's decree and follow the sects established by the bodhisattvas and teachers? Or should we ignore the words of the bodhisattvas and teachers and follow the sect established by the Buddha." (Ibid., pg. 176)

"Now the Latter Day of the Law, is the time when the seven characters of Namu Myoho renge kyo-the heart of the twenty-eight chapters of the Lotus Sutra that Shakyamuni Buddha who had achieved enlightenment in the remote past, along with the bodhisattvas Jogyo, Muhengyo and the others is to propogate-will alone spread throughout the country."(Ibid., pg. 187-188)

"The messenger of the Lord Buddha Shakyamuni has twice been paraded through the street." (MW vol. 6, A Father Takes Faith, pg. 242).

"Because Shakyamuni expounded the Lotus Sutra in order to repay the debt of gratitude he owed to his father and mother, Taho Buddha, who had come from the land of treasure purity, praised him as a Buddha of true filial piety. And the Buddhas of the ten directions assembled and declared him to be the most filial among all the Buddhas."(MW vol. 6, On Filial and Unfilial Conduct, pg. 290)

"Therefore, the words of this Sutra are indeed the very soul of Shakyamuni Buddha. And since every single word constitutes the soul of the Buddha, Shakyamuni Buddha will protect persons who practice this Sutra as though he were protecting his very own eyes. He will accompany such persons just as a shadow accompanies a body. How then could the prayers of such persons not be answered." (MW vol. 7, On Prayer, pg. 34)

"The various Buddhas [other than Shakyamuni], since they are known as World Honored One, may be regarded as Sovereigns. But since they do not make their appearance in this saha world, they are not teachers. Nor do they declare that '... the living beings in it (this threefold world) are all my children'. Thus, Shakyamuni Buddha alone fulfills the three functions of sovereign, teacher and parent." (Ibid., pg. 43)

"The Shakyamuni Buddha who lived in a past even more distant than gohyaku-jintengo-became enlightened to the Lotus that is the entity of the Mystic Law. Thereafter, in age after age and lifetime after lifetime, he declared that he had attained the way and he revealed the fundamental principle of wisdom and reality."(MW vol. 7, The Entity of the Mystic Law, pg. 67)

"In this passage, Shakyamuni Buddha explains that he is entrusting to the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, his original disciples, the five characters of Myoho renge Kyo which is the essence of the Lotus Sutra. Shakyamuni, who attained enlightenment countless Kalpas in the past, says elsewhere, 'By now the original vows that I made have already been fulfilled. I have converted all living beings and caused them to enter the Buddha way'... This passage represents the ultimate purpose for which Shakyamuni appeared in the world, the secret Law that he
attained in the place of meditation." (Ibid., pg. 70)

"In the Latter Day of the Law, other than the envoy of the Thus Come One, there can be no one who understands and produces this passage as proof of the Lotus of the Entity." (Ibid., pg. 70)

"The way in which the Lotus emerges from the muddy water is used as a metaphor to explain that when the Thus Come One joins the multitude of listeners, seats himself on a lotus in the same manner as the various bodhisattvas and expounds on the unsurpassed wisdom of the Thus Come One and on the enlightened state of purity, the various voice heavens, hearing this, are able to obtain the secret storehouse of the Thus Come One. Second, the words Myoho renge signify the lotus opening up. (This is a metaphor explaining that) ordinary beings, though exposed to the Mahayana teachings, are timid and fearful in mind and incapable of taking faith in them. Therefore the Thus Come One 'opens' or reveals his Dharma body in its purity and wonder, awakening in them the mind of faith." (Ibid., pg. 71-72)

"In the entire land of Jambuduipa, there has never before been a hall or pagoda that produced the image of Shakyamuni Buddha of the Ju-ryô Chapter of the Lotus Sutra. How could such an image fail to appear now."(MW vol. 7, The Unmatched Fortune of the Law, pg. 160)

"But he reveres Shakyamuni Buddha and puts his faith in the teaching of the Lotus Sutra. Hence he is like a snake that grips a jewel in its mouth, or a dragon that bears sacred relics on its head. A wisteria vine by Twining around a pine, may climb a thousand meters into the air and a crane, because it has wings to rely upon, can travel ten thousand miles. It is not their own strength that allows them to do these things." (MW vol. 7, On The Urobon, pg. 172-173)

These passages from the Gosho are absolutely clear. Nichiren's reverence for Shakyamuni Buddha was profound and limitless. Why do the Taisekiji sects fail to heed them, to understand them, and to embrace them? Has Devil of the Sixth Heaven descended into their priests' and lay teachers' minds and bodies? Shakyamuni is the Original Buddha. Only a perverted reading of the Lotus Sutra and Gosho and fractured mind could come to adifferent conclusion. Only a most devious mind would conspire with other like-minded individuals to attempt to destroy and distort the most sacred of teachings:

"They will tear off the first part of the Sutra and stick it on the end, tear off the end and put it at the beginning, put the end and the beginning in the middle and the beginning at the middle or end. You must understand that these evil monks are the companions of the devil." (MW vol. 2, Opening Of The Eyes, pg. 180)

"Unfilial children however are not allowed to succeed their parents." (MW vol. 3, Letter to Nichinyo, pg. 49)

"There is a difference if one chants the daimoku while acting against the intent of this Sutra." (MW vol. 3, The Fourteen Slanders, pg. 207);

and

"Those who practice buddhism but adhere to distorted views destroy this loftiest of Sutras." (MW vol. 5, Reply to Soya Nyudo, pg. 164).

Question: How can this most distressing of situations be remedied?

Answer: "In the same way, one who chants the daimoku as the Lotus Sutra teaches will never have a twisted mind." (MW vol. 5, Letter to Myomitsu Shonin, pg. 196)

"Those who seek the truth of buddhism, however, should reject one sided views whether they are of their own sect's or other sect's and should not treat others with contempt." (MW vole 2, Opening Of The Eyes, pg. 167)

"One should use the Sutras as his eyes and give precedence to the wisdom of the Buddha. Surely however, if this standard is made clear people will become enraged and harbor indignation in their minds. Let them do as they will. What matters most is that we honor the Buddha's command. As a rule people in the world value what is distant and despise what is near, but this is the conduct of the ignorant. Even the distant should be repudiated if it s wrong, while that which is near should not be discarded if it accords with the truth. Even though people may revere (their predecessors doctrines), if those doctrines are in error, how can we employ them today." (MW vole 4, Reply to Hoshina Goro Taro, pg. 42-43)

The Kempon Hokke faith and doctrine is far superior to the faith and doctrine of the Fuji school sects and accords with the mind of the Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin.

Illarraza

Hi,

Have we met? I have some issues with Kempon Hokke's past attempts to doscredit Nikko Shonin and their Ita Mandala. The work had quite a few esily refuted errors. BTW, my areas of interest are chiefly the Gohonzon and the transmission documents.

One thing, it appears to me that Nichiren Shonin did make a distinction between the historical person Shakyamuni and the Shakyamuni of the Juryo Chaper, who only appears in one chapter and two halves. He even refers to the former as "the little shaka of thae Agon Sutra. The Shakya of Juryo appears to represent the uncreated triple bodied tathagata. This would be the Buddha depicted in the Isson Shiji Gohonzon.

Another, IIRC, Kenpon Hokke, like Taisekiji prefers the scripture mandala? ASre stuary representastions of the Nin-Honzon or Ten World's Greast Mandala permitted? My take is the Nin-Honzon depicts the Buddha as the Purified 5 skandhas. The Dharma Honzon, the Gresat Mandala, depicts the Buddha in terms of ichinen sanzen.

I do think that Nichikan of Taisekiji erred in identying the Nyorai of musa sanjin with the person of Nichiren. This is the same error as confusing Gautama the person with the "Eternal" Shakya, except it is a worse error. Taisekiji invents the absurd doctrine that separate Buddha apperar in the Zoho and mappo of Shakyamuni's Dharma. If Nichiren eclipses or supersedes Gatama as the Buddha of this age, then this would be the Shoho of Nichiren.

Also, I believe Gautama taught both the Shakumon & the Honmon. He put the Shakuman first; since that deals with harvest, or acquired merits. Nichiren Shonin put the Honmon first; that being the awakening of unattained merits.

Acquired Buddhahood could be represented by Gautama flanked by Jizo or Yakuo, Monju, Fugen, and Kannon or Miroku. Innate or unattained Buddhahhod by the Eternal Buddha flanked by the 4 attandants. Thta is my take, at present.

One more comment. I have three samples of Mandala Gohonzons drawn by Nikko Shonin. Two of these have those phrases; one does not. The one that does not appears to be signed Namu Nichiren Daishoin then Nikko's name & seal.

The two with the g/l phrases are signed Nichiren Zaigohan followed by Nikko's name & seal. This protocol seems to be followed not only by Taisekiji; but also by Kitayama and Nishyama.

Gohonzon Study; Nikko Monryu; Nichiren Zaigohan

Nam' Myoho Renge Kyo Nichiren down the middle?

At one of the first Buddhist meetings I attended, more than 35 years ago, the guests were told that the Gohonzon always has "Nam' Myho Renge Kyo Nichiren" written down the middle. I have heard that many times since, and it is a common assumption of those raised in the Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu. As time passed, I learned that this indicates the Principle of Oneness of Person and Law; or Ninpo-Ikka {人法一箇}.

SGI honestly discloses that this is "A principle established by Nichikan (1665-1726), the twenty-sixth chief priest of Taiseki-ji temple in Japan, with Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucketregard to Nichiren's (1222-1282) teaching, indicating that the object of devotion in terms of the Person and the object of devotion in terms of the Law are one in their essence. The Law is inseparable from the Person and vice versa."

...

Nikko's method of signing them was as follows:

He wrote Nichiren's name in Kanji below the Daimoku like this: {日蓮}. Then below that, or off to the left side facing; "Zaigohan" {在御判}} {by authority of). Then the wrote his name & seal. So the signature would read, 'Nikko, by authority of Nichiren.' This tells me Nikko viewed himself as endorsing or signing the mandala in Nichiren's stead, or on Nichiren's behalf.

Gohonzon Study; Nikko Monryu; Nichiren Zaigohan

Here are some images of Gohonzon from Kitayama and Nishiyama. These are signed the same way:

Hi Robby. I saw your picture and I don't think we ever met. I don't recall having discredited Nikko. We follow the Succession of the Scrolls of the Sutra. We are free to study and worship the Gohonzon(inscribed by) any excellent priest. The grandiose statements of Taisekaji are a danger to the faith of believers who might actually believe there is a super Gohonzon, a "power plant" that activates all Gohonzon and therefore Buddhahood and those who practice to another Gohonzon are therefore excluded from the fruits of the Buddhist practice. It is not the so-called DaiGohonzon per se that is evil, it is what it represents. Nichiren never mentioned it.

There is no distinction whatsoever between the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni and Shakyamuni of India. The Triple Bodied Tathagata is none other than Shakyamuni Buddha.

"You hear clearly about the Tahagata's Hidden Secret Divine Pervasive Powers. The humans and devas as well as asuras of all the worlds say, 'The present Shakyamuni Buddha, having gone forth from the palace of the Shakya Clan, not far gone from the town of Gaya, seated at the Place of Enlightenment has obtained Anuttara-samyak-sambodhi.' However good sons,since I truly attained Buddhahood it has been immeasurable limitless hundreds of thousands of myriads of tens of millions of nayuta kalpas."

The only distinction is in the unennlightened worldling's mind. Any distinction made by Nichiren is to rectify the unenlighted viewpoint that Shakyamuni attained Enlightenement for the first time at Bodh Gaya.

We are free to worship Shayamuni surrounded by the Four Bodhisattvas, I believe, with or without Taho Buddha(?) and the other representatives of the ten worlds(?). I am also not sure whether the Lotus Sutra needs to be placed before this arrangement but my gut feeling is that it does. You may ask Shamon, the Kempon Hokke priest on the Kempon Hokke BBS or Graham Lamont. I bet other believers are also unsure, so the mandala Gohonzon is a sure bet. Any Object of Worship found in a Kempon Hokke temple would be acceptable to me. Not every believer in Kempon Hokke has either a mandala Gohonzon, a statue arrangement, or portrait Gohonzon, for example: New believers or those unfit to care for a Gohonzon such as the mentally deranged.

About the Nin-Honzon versus the "Dharma-Honzon", they both represent the life of the Etarnal Buddha Shakyamuni.

It is clear that Nichiren is Bodhhisattva Jogyo , the messenger of the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni and Nichiren has inscribed this fact on a mandala.

Nichiren is very clear the form a Gohonzon should take(at least the form it should take in the eye of faith):

'One: Japan and so on to the whole of Jambudvipa should uniformly take the Master of Teachings Lord Shakya of the Original Doctrine as the Object of Worship. Which is to say, Shakya and Taho within the Jeweled Stupa, the various Buddhas outside as well as the Four Bodhisattvas, Jogyo and the others, are to become the side attendents."(Hoon Sho or Repaying Favor or Repaying Debts of Gratitude Gosho)

This argument is not consistent with what Nichiren teaches. The Gohonzon represents the Law, while the Nin-Honzon represents the person and the Law, not any person whether eternal or not, and certainly not Nichiren himself but all people. The problem Nichiren had in teaching this is that he could not come out and say outright that the Eternal Buddha was the Law, because too many people are attached to the person. He made reference to this in many authenticated Gosho like the Kanjin Honzon Sho, but didn't hold fast to this concept because of the problems that arise between peoples conception. He had to allow them to opt out so as to continue on the path.



I wouldn't mind talking to Shamon, but I wouldn't give two cents for anything Lamont says. Lamonts translations fly in the face of even the Nichiren Shu translations, and are not consistent with the body of translations by other people such as Martin Bradley, who translates directly from Chinese source not Japanese translations of the Chinese source.

BTW, I've also talked to Steve Polito who is an old friend of mine, and have reached the conclusion that Kempon Hokke makes one huge mistake. Kempon Hokke slanders other sects as a means for propagation instead of putting forth their own version, and in doing so they slander the Law. These other sects, even though their dogma may be incorrect are still believers in the Lotus Sutra and especially the Daimoku. To slander them is to slander the Law, and that is why Kempon Hokke will remain on the fringes. Gotta get rid of the anger or you'll never grow!

Robby:

"This argument is not consistent with what Nichiren teaches. The Gohonzon represents the Law, while the Nin-Honzon represents the person and the Law, not any person whether eternal or not, and certainly not Nichiren himself but all people. The problem Nichiren had in teaching this is that he could not come out and say outright that the Eternal Buddha was the Law, because too many people are attached to the person. He made reference to this in many authenticated Gosho like the Kanjin Honzon Sho, but didn't hold fast to this concept because of the problems that arise between peoples conception. He had to allow them to opt out so as to continue on the path."

Mark:

The Gohonzon is the object of Worship of Ninpo-Ika. The oneness of Person and Law, not just any person, but the person of the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni and not just any Law but the Law of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo. There is no distinction whatsoever between the Person of the Buddha Shakyamuni of the Original Doctrine and the Law of Namu Myoho Renge Kyo. We can also add the Land of the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni. The Person, the Land and the Law of the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni is the Object of Worship. This is the life itself of the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni. Otherwise, the Buddha, the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren would have taught that images of the Person, Land and Law of anyone, any Buddha, any Bodhisaatva, any Asura or any Mara being could be the Object of Worship. The general and the specific should not be confused. Speaking of the Gohonzon in terms of the Person the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni, I present the following:

from the "Kanjin Honzon Sho" ("True Object of Worship"), translated by
Senchu Murano:

"During the fifty years of his teaching from the time of his enligthenment under the bo-tree till his attainment of Nirvana under the Sala-tree, the Buddha expounded a great number of sutras. ... Buddha Shakyamuni as the expounder of these sutras is not eternal, because the eternity of the Buddha is for the first time revealed in the latter half of the [Lotus Sutra]. ... In this (saha) world, the Buddha is eternal, has never been extinct, nor is to be reborn. ... The Buddha made no mention of
this truth in the first half of the [Lotus Sutra], because he had not yet found hearers intelligent enough to understand it. "

This truth is embodied in the five Words, or rather in the Seven Words, Na-mu-myo-ren-ge-kyo, or 'The Most Honorable Lotus of the Perfect Truth,' which also means 'Adoration be to the Lotus of the Perfect Truth' when taken as the formula of invocation. The Five Words being the expression of the most prfound teaching of the Buddha, the Buddha did not entrust them even to the hitherto most repected Bodisattvas ... instead, he transmitted them to the Bodhisattvas equal to the dust-atoms of one thousand worlds in number who appeared from the gaps of the earth for the first time in the fifteenth chapter of the [Lotus Sutra].

"The true object of worship should be the Buddha at the moment of this
transmission. ... "In history, however, no one has ever worshippped the Buddha as revealed in this scene. ... an image of the true object of worship is destined to
appear for the first time at the beginning of the Period of Deprivation."

"Shakyamuni Buddha and the written words of the lotus Sutra are two
different things but their heart is one. Therefore, when you cast your
eyes upon the words of the Lotus sutra you should consider that you are
beholding the living body of the Buddha shakyamuni"(The Pure and Far
Reaching Voice).

"First in Japan and all the other countries throughout the world, the object of worship should be the Lord Shakyamuni of true Buddhism."(Repaying Debts of Gratitude)

"For this reason all the persons in the saha world of ours, if they detest
the sufferings of birth and death and wish to have an object of veneration
to which they can pay respect, should first of all fashion images of
Shakyamuni Buddha...and make these their object of worship."(The Learned
Shan-wu-wei)

"In the entire land of Jambudvipa, there has never before been a hall or
pagoda that produced the image of Shakyamuni Buddha of the Juryo Chapter
of the Lotus Sutra. How could such an image fail to appear now."(The
Unmatched Fortune of the Law)

"The Shakyamuni of the Juryo Chapter has never been depicted in any
mountain temple or monastery anywhere."(Rebuking Slander of the Law)

"Since the Buddha's passing, two kinds of images, wooden and painted, have
been made of Him.......

"Him, not it(The Law). The Law is a part of Him as is His Land. Inseperable.

When the Lotus Sutra is placed before an image(wooden or painted) possessing thirty-one features, the image never fails to become the Buddha of pure and perfect teaching."(Opening the Eyes of Wooden or Painted Images)

"This Buddha of yours, however is a living Buddha."(Consecrating an Image
of Shakyamuni Buddha Made By Shijo Kingo) "It is the power of the Lotus Sutra that makes it possible to infuse such paintings and STATUES with a "soul" or spiritual property"(ibid.)

"A Stupa of treasures is hanging in the sky above the
Saha-World of the Eternal Buddha. The letters of
myohorengkyo are seen in the center of the Stupa. On either
side of the letters are seen Buddha Sakyamuni and the
Many-Treasures Buddha. Buddha Sakyamuni is accompanied by
the four Bodhisattvas including Manjusri and Maitreya are
sitting in the lower seats. All the other Bodhisattvas,
including those taught by the historical Buddha Sakyamuni
and those who have come from the other worlds of the ten
quarters are also on the ground. This shows that these
Buddhas are the manifestations of the Eternal Buddha
Shakyamuni and that the worlds of theirs are the
manifestations of the Saha-World of the Eternal Buddha
Shakyamuni. We should worship all these Buddhas and
Bodhisattvas in this arrangement. This is the Honzon, or the
true object of worship. This Honzon was not revealed during
the lifetime of the Buddha except when he expounded the
eight consecutive chapters (XV to XXII) of the Lotus Sutra."(Kanjin honzon
Sho, NOPPA)

"I for the first time reveal, as a banner of the spread of
the Hokkekyo the Great Mandala which even Nagarjuna,
Vasubandhu, and so on, and Tendai, Myoraku, and so on did
not reveal. This is not at all something which I, Nichiren
made myself. It is the Object of Worship which is from the
print block of the Great Muni, the World Honored One within
the Stupa of Taho and the Separate-Body Buddhas."(Reply to Lady Nichinyo,
NOPPA)

From the Nirvana Sutra(I believe):

AND the Blessed One thus addressed the brethren: "Those only who
do not believe, call me Gotama, but you call me the Buddha, the
Blessed One, the Teacher. And this is right, for I have in this life
entered Nirvana, while the life of Gotama has been extinguished.
Self has disappeared and the truth has taken its abode in me. This
body of mine is Gotama's body and it will be dissolved in due time,
and after its dissolution no one, neither God nor man, will see Gotama
again. But the truth remains. The Buddha will not die; the Buddha will
continue to live in the holy body of the law.

"The extinction of the Blessed One will be by that passing away in
which nothing remains that could tend to the formation of another
self. Nor will it be possible to point out the Blessed One as being
here or there. But it will be like a flame in a great body of
blazing fire. That flame has ceased; it has vanished and it cannot
be said that it is here or there. In the body of the Dhanna,
however, the Blessed One can be pointed out; for the Dharma has been
preached by the Blessed One.

"You are my children, I am your father; through me you have been
released from your sufferings. I myself having reached the other
shore, help others to cross the stream; I myself having attained
salvation, am a savior of others; being comforted, I comfort others
and lead them to the place of refuge. I shall fill with joy all the
beings whose limbs languish; I shall give happiness to those who are
dying from distress; I shall extend to them succor and deliverance.

"I was born into the world as the king of truth for the salvation of
the world. The subject on which I meditate is truth. The practice to
which I devote myself is truth. The topic of my conversation is truth.
My thoughts are always in the truth. For lo! my self has become the
truth. Whosoever comprehendeth the truth will see the Blessed One, for
the truth has been preached by the Blessed One."

The Eternal Buddha nature is Namu Myoho Renge Kyo. The expounder of this truth is Lord Shakyamuni of the Original Doctrine.

The Kempon Hokke permits the following

"The Object of Worship of the Doctrine of the Original: it is from the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni (through His Messenger Nichiren Shonin) that we receive the Daimoku, the principal practice, and we direct it towards that Original, Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni as the Principal (Original or Fundamental) Holy One, the Object of Worship (gohonzon) in our minds and (where possible) to a physical embodiment, such as (1) a mandala written by or modeled on one written by Nichiren Shonin, (2) a written scroll of "Namu Myoho renge kyo", (3) images of the manifest Buddha Shakya and the ancient Buddha of Witness Taho seated on either side of the Daimoku and surrounded by the Four Chief Bodhisattvas Who Sprang from the Earth, (4) the image of Lord Shakyamuni attended by the Four Bodhisattvas Who Sprang from the Earth or (5) a statue of Shakyamuni with the Hokekyo (Lotus Sutra) placed before it. (All of these are permissible images of the Eternal Buddha but our sect, which was often persecuted, has often
preferred the mandala because of its ease of movement and concealment.)
We of the Kempon Hokke do not permit the separate enshrinement of other
deities in our temples or altars; however, a statue of Nichiren Shonin may
be placed before and below the Gohonzon itself."

Mark

Sorry Mark P. It was to you that I should have addressed the previous post.

As to the Nichiren Shoshu and the SGI believing in the Lotus Sutra and the Daimoku...they couldn't assert what they do and believe in the Sutra. I have no anger towards them only pity. It is they who are angry and bitter because even though they chant the Daimoku they distort it's meaning:

"Thus it was revealed that Shakyamuni had long been the Buddha since the
eternal past, and it became clear that various Buddhas in other worlds were
all manifestations of Shakyamuni Buddha..[ ] now, however, as Shakyamuni was
proved to be the Eternal Buddha, those Buddhas in the Flower Garland Sutra, or
Buddhas in the Hodo, Hannya, or Great Sun Buddha sutras all became
subordinates of Shakyamuni Buddha." (Kaimoku Sho, p. 174, translated by
Kyotsu Hori, 1987)

BTW, here’s the same quote, as translated by NSIC. Please note the
differences:

"When Shakyamuni Buddha revealed that he had gained enlightenment in the far
distant past and had since then been constantly in the world, it became
apparent that all the other Buddhas were emanations of Shakyamuni....but now
it becomes apparent that Vairocana Buddha of the Kegon Sutra and various
Buddhas of the Hodo, Hannya and Dainichi sutras are in fact all followers of
Shakyamuni Buddha." (MW V.2, p.149)

And again, Nichiren says:

"Since Shakyamuni Buddha is eternal and all other Buddhas in the universe
are His manifestations........" (Kaimoku Sho, translated by Kyotsu Hori,
p.176).

NSIC translates this as :

"Since the Buddha of the Juryo chapter is revealed as the eternal
Buddha.....(the part about the manifestation Buddhas is left out
altogether!)" (MW V. 2, p.150)

Once again, from the Kaimoku Sho, translated by Kyotsu Hori, p.180:

"But now since it has been revealed that Shakyamuni is the Eternal
Buddha....etc."

"But now that it has become apparent that Shakyamuni Buddha attained
enlightenment countless aeons ago,.......etc. (MW V.2, p. 151)

"Since Sakyamuni Buddha is eternal and all other Buddhas in the universe
are His manifestations, then those great bodhisattvas converted by manifested
Buddhas are also disciples of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha. If the "Life Span of the
Buddha" chapter had not been expounded, it would be like the sky without the
sun
and moon, a country without a king, mountains and rivers without gems, or a
man without a soul." (Noppa, pg. 176, Kaimoku Sho)

As for the Kanjin Honzon Sho, (translated by Kyotsu Hori) there is not a
single sentence wherein Nichiren even suggests that he is somehow this
Eternal Buddha that is found in the Juryo Chapter. Instead, we have Nichiren
say:

"...Shakyamuni Buddha, within our minds, is an ancient Buddha without
beginning, manifesting Himself in three bodies and attained Buddhahood n the
eternal past......(ibid. P.94)

"...the Bodhisattvas (who sprang from underneath the ground), as described
in the 15th chapter, are followers of the Original Buddha Shakaymuni who
resides within our minds."(p.94)

"Shakyamuni Buddha, the Lord-preacher of this pure land, has never died in
the past, nor will he be born in the future. He exists forever, throughout
the past, present and future." (P.100)

"The "honzon" at the scene of this transmission of "Namu Myo Ho Renge Kyo"
from the Eternal Buddha to His Original Disciples is....suspended in the sky
above the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni’s Saha-world is a stupa of treasures, in
which Shakyamuni Buddha and Taho sit to the left and right of "Myo Ho Renge
Kyo". (P.102)

"Many wooden statues and portraits were made of Shakyamuni Buddha as He
preached Hinayana and quasi-Mahayana sutras, but statues and portraits of
the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha revealed in the Juryo Chapter of the Lotus
Sutra were never made. Now, in the beginning of Mappo, is it not the time
that such statues and portraits are made?" (P.104)

And , from the Ho’on Jo (translated by Taikyo Yajima):

"All the people in Japan as well as the rest of the whole world should
revere the Lord Buddha Shakyamuni (Original and Eternal Buddha) revealed in
the essential section (honmon) of the Lotus Sutra as the object of worship
(honzon)." (P. 198)

Kanjin Honzon-Sho (NOPPA) page 56:


"In fact Sakyamuni began to preach, planting the seed of Buddhahood in
the eternal past... Sakyamuni Buddha continued to guide His disciples
until they were all sure to attain Buddhahood during the preaching of
the Lotus Sutra in His present life, completing the series of His preaching
which began in the eternal past."

Kanjin Honzon-Sho (NOPPA) page 86:

"This means that Sakyamuni Buddha, Taho Buddha, and all the Buddhas in
manifestation are in our minds, and that we, upholders of the Lotus Sutra, will
follow in their steps and inherit all the merits of those Buddhas."

and somewhat further along:

"In the same chapter, another passage reads: ‘The duration of My Life, which I
obtained through the practice of the way of bodhisattvas, has not yet expired.
It is twice as long as the length of time stated
above: 500 dust-particle kalpa.’ This reveals the bodhisattva-realm within our
minds. The bodhisattvas described in the fifteenth chapter, ‘Appearance of
Bodhisattvas from Underground,’ who have
sprung out of the great earth, as numerous as the number of dust-particles of
1,000 worlds, are followers of the Original Buddha
Sakyamuni who resides within our minds."

Kanjin Honzon-Sho (NOPPA) page 94

"Now , when the Eternal Buddha was revealed in the essential section of the
Lotus Sutra, this world of endurance (Saha-world) became the Eternal Pure Land,
indestructible even by the three calamities of conflagration, flooding, and