I love your sugar coated way of saying "you're a n00b".

Sorry for not walking on eggshells! I didn't know people would cry about what I said (hey, it's only not okay because I haven't been around for a long time).

I have better shit to do then watch people suppress feelings in broken english.

Enjoy your forum.

"Broken english"? That sounds quite...vicious.

Everyone (and i mean everyone) on this forum has better English skills than the majority of American-born Americans.

And thank you, Srimala, for the answer i was hoping for.

I have no complaints about moderators!
Sorry for posting in this thread!
Reason is, I'd very much like to see a companion thread to this one that has a title something like:

"In appreciation of moderators".

I love our moderators, yes even that sweetie Namdrol who chased this coyote away from the henhouse already!

To be serious, Thanks to many people here I've learned a lot, from this thread too. About patience and tolerance and loving-kindness. So thank you to Teyes who has let this thread run even though it has cost him some Very late nites. Most of us have seen other Buddhist boards fail. I believe it is Thanks to our Moderators that this board is still here to help us all while we follow the Buddha Way.

A big THANK YOU to all mods! Your job is difficult, but it is saving this sentient being.

(And you-all are most welcome to chase away this coyote anytime coyote needs chasing! And you are more than welcome and appreciated to talk to coyote in any language! Coyote even understands WHAP with the rolled-up newspaper!)

Vicious;

e-Sangha does not have to exist. It's not a right. It's like having a neighbor who is generous about allowing others to use their pool...I might get so used to using the pool that it feels like it's mine, but it still isn't. If I respond to that generosity by arguing about chlorine levels or complaining that the towels are scratchy, pretty soon nobody gets to use the pool and bad feelings are sown throughout the neighborhood.

And hey, life goes on--it's just a pool, after all, not food or shelter or air, but for someone who is just learning to swim, it's a real loss.

Criticize my analogy if you like (after all, my english is not broken so no opportunity there) but I'm starting to think that this quarreling makes a case for stronger moderation rather than more lenient.

Speaking of shit;

I borrowed this from genkaku!

DONT EAT WHERE YOU SHIT

sorry for the harsh language everybody...........but potty humour does entertain some

vicious

unfortunately you can't change your name here (also not sign up with different identities), What you are able to do is, to produce a big change in your mind. Your attitude you may change.
Try to change that attitude and we will forget what vicious means.

Best Wishes Dave

P.S. I am the one with broken English. That's OK i think, since i am grown up in a non-english spoken country.

D.

Brothers and Sisters:

How to admonish another
Although the Buddha offered this advice to the bhikkhus (monks), lay-followers will also find it to be worthy of deep reflection. If you have ever "blown up" at someone, only to regret it later, consider this...
O bhikkhus, a bhikkhu who desires to admonish another should do so after investigating five conditions in himself and after establishing five other conditions in himself. What are the five conditions which he should investigate in himself?
(1) Am I one who practises purity in bodily action, flawless and untainted...?

(2) Am I one who practises purity in speech, flawless and untainted...?

(3) Is the heart of goodwill, free from malice, established in me towards fellow-farers in the holy life...?

(4) Am I or am I not one who has heard much, who bears in mind what he has heard, who stores up what he has heard? Those teachings which are good alike in their beginning, middle, and ending, proclaiming perfectly the spirit and the letter of the utterly purified holy life -- have such teachings been much heard by me, borne in mind, practised in speech, pondered in the heart and rightly penetrated by insight...?

(5) Are the Patimokkhas [rules of conduct for monks and nuns] in full thoroughly learnt by heart, well-analyzed with thorough knowledge of their meanings, clearly divided sutta by sutta and known in minute detail by me...?

These five conditions must be investigated in himself.

And what other five conditions must be etablished in himself?

(1) Do I speak at the right time, or not?
(2) Do I speak of facts, or not?
(3) Do I speak gently or harshly?
(4) Do I speak profitable words or not?
(5) Do I speak with a kindly heart, or inwardly malicious?

O bhikkhus, these five conditions are to be investigated in himself and the latter five established in himself by a bhikkhu who desires to admonish another.

-- Anguttara Nikaya X 176 (From The Patimokkha, Ñanamoli Thera, tr.)

I hope you all find this helpful -may you all find happiness, and joyous freedom.

"The Bird and the Shit"

ROFLAO -

I do understand what you mean 'Vicious' - but sometimes one has just got to put a cork in it - raw uncontroled emotion is not always beneficial to yourself or others. Freedom of the self comes with a great deal of resposibility, something many individualists misunderstand. To express your own freedom totaly will undoubtedly restrict anothers freedom elsewhere, to accomodate your own freedom of expression .

To demand ones own freedom to do as one wishes, must automaticaly assume the freedom of others, for one cannot demand a 'right' for oneself, if that 'right' is not extended to all individuals. One just has to know the appropraiate methods of expressing one's Freedom's, without infringing upon anothers freedoms, unless you are going to use the law of the fist, and Im sure you dont approve of that method - do you Vicious??? .

The above applies to all people, the strong and the weak, the over sensitive and the not so senstive etc etc, all must accomodate the other AAAAHHHHHH. Sometimes the strong need to be weak and sometimes the weak need to be strong, though IMPO, our present society places too much emphasis on weakness and the weak, which can be very frustrating at times .

This is where Buddhism and its teaching comes in, with its middle way [which also means not having to surpress ones feelings either], mindfulness and detachment from the five groups of clinging to existence. It can be difficult to live amongst other human beings, with all those personal demands and varient perceptions, clashing against each other all the time. But if we would just walk the middle way and let go of some of that self grasping, become more mindfull of the situation within and without us, and learn to cease our useless cravings, attachments and compulsions, then Im sure we will do a lot better for ourselves and others.

PS - one persons broken English, is far better than my inability to speak any other language. We English speakers have it good, we expect everyone to speak our language, as it is becoming the universal mode of communication, and we never think of returning the compliment.

Rigba
Ghunjan

Dharma Das, Gnostic Daemon, Wild Wood Wiseard, Shamanic Siddhi, Deep Green Anarchic, Veggy, Fag.

"There is enough virtue in the world to be hatefull, but not enough humanity to be divine"

"Ego is like fire. It is a good servant but a bad master"

I've spoken with Vicious in chat. He's 14.

I know we don't approve of the way he worded his post. He could have said what he felt he needed to say with less verbal violence. Yet he didn't.

But, if you read just a few posts before his, there are several posts referring to some new posters being aggressive here and hinting (to my eye) that e-sangha ought to start battening down the hatches in response to some sort of perceived threat from the outside.

Now, if I were 14, unsure of myself, trying to make my way in the world, and new on this board, I might take that personally. It might make me feel very unwelcome. I might even feel the compulsion to react to it with a kind of paranoia borne of an adolescent's insecurity. I've seen plenty of grown adults do the same thing on the internet in different places under similar circumstances.

If I were 14, I might also not yet have had the opportunity to develop skillful means for expressing myself when I feel hurt. Maybe I come from a family where this mode of "communication" is the norm. Perhaps it's all I know. I might need the gentle guidance of those who are more skilled than I am in order to learn that there is something else. Somehow, I am fortunate enough to meet the dharma...

Instead of reacting compulsively right back in response to vicious' post, and turning the wheel again, we might think about what a compassionate response in this situation would be. Or we can just keep the spiral spiraling.

Let me see if I've got this straight.

Someone criticized the moderators.
Someone criticized the person who criticized the moderators.
Someone criticized the person who criticized the person who criticized the moderators.
Someone critiziced the person who criticized the person who criticized the person who criticized the moderators.

Am I missing a layer in here? It's becoming like a hall of mirrors!

I was going to send metta to the person who was wrong, but I am losing my bearings on who that is, so will include everyone, just in case.

yep

i dont mind critisim......as long as it is constructive
as long as it is intelligent
as long as it is not a personal attack........even if it was so what?

when two angry elephants meet
the only thing that gets hurt is the grass!!!!!!

bluebonnet:

as much as it might piss one off to be told off by a fourteen-year-old, i dont think it's terribly productive to react with hostility. in this case, the kid raised a valid point in a rather artless manner, ( ) and he was met with a bunch of straight-laced people trying to talk nasty to him. our responses were 1) unproductive because they probably scared the kid away from buddhism 2) a poor way to represent our buddhist practice to the internet at large, and 3) actually lamer and less relevant than the insults they responded to. don't talk trash guys, it's really not good for anybody.

I have not posted for a while, but, I would like to say that I could not care who's friend Henry was/was not prior to him moderating. I consider him a friend of mine. (even though I have NO idea what he looks like)

Since this is also about moderators, I would like to thank all of them for helping this sangha be so wonderful.

Deep bows to you all,

with metta and mudita,
Randy

After 4 days of my first posting at this thread, we can see all different diverse view on the same matter. Some were off-topics, some wer not.
From this thread, I hope to explain why certain moderation and censorship are required to keep e-Sangha going. For more than 2000 members to agree in a same view point is impossible. Some who joined us are trolls and they do enjoy making a mess in a community such as us. Look at this thread itself, and you can see that its getting really messy without their intervention. So in order for us to flourish, the moderators + founding members have to make sure that
1) the postings + signatures are not offensive
2) the posting will not open up any old wound which cause majaor disagreements etc.
So I urge all members to be more considerate towards other in all our postings and if you do received any pm's from moderators requiring any change in your signature or postings, I hope we can all cooperate with the moderators. If you do not like censorship, I can tell you that I dislike censorship too. But I hate to censor members postings even more, because I have to read thruogh all the postings in detail, be prepared to receive complaints and be prepared to defend my viewpoints etc. All the moderators + founding members have contributed lots of their time in helping e-Sangha and I love to thank them for their invaluable help.
Thanks for the cooperation and have a nice day.
Regards
Leo