All fellow members of e-Sangha,
Over the last few weeks, there is an increase in the number of complains about moderators and I can see a war is brewing. I hope that all members show slightly more benevolence and kindness especially we're dealing with 2000++ members all from different countries, cultures.
1) The pms I received claim that Henry is a good friend of mine since we're all living in Singapore. Thus I will surely help this friend of mine.
Just for info purposes, Singapore, although small, has a 4 million population. I do not know Henry prior to the setup of e-Sangha. Henry had been posting at e-Sangha since the first month, and that time, we have 2 moderators, namely Kataka and Boom_Cat. It was Boom Cat recommendation that I brought him in.
I truly believe that Henry is very knowledgeable and he will be a good guide for us.
2) None of the moderators were paid any money to help out at this forum. They are all volunteers.
So I hope taht we can all show them the respect that they deserved. Just to let you know, we do have an Admin room whereby we discuss all these issues prior to any members account being suspended, ban etc. Usually we will go thru a voting system.
Thanks for being here with us.
Regards
Leo
Full Version: Complains About Moderators
Thanks Leo, for putting it all together, putting up with all of us, and your continued hard work, much appreciated!! Personally, I would not care if you did or did not know Henry prior to set up, we are fortunate to have him, I am grateful for his contributions.
Thanks to all moderators for you time and effort, and thanks to all members too for being here . This is an amazing opportunity, bursting with potential, we have so much to learn from each other, it's simply grand.
Thanks to all moderators for you time and effort, and thanks to all members too for being here . This is an amazing opportunity, bursting with potential, we have so much to learn from each other, it's simply grand.
Dear Teyes
I don't doubt the moderator's knowledge nor their general good will. I have been rude to one ( I won;t name said individual), and if I haven't appologized for this yet (I have a poor memory) then I'd like to so now. Sorry, really. Quite sincerely.
I have said this before (in a thread called "Dear moderator" which I can either no longer locate or has mysteriously disappeared) that power is a dangerous thing and that censorship should never be taken lightly (or in my opinion shouldn't happen at all). It has been said and proven for many centuries that power corrupts, even the Buddha spoke to this I believe. The vast majority of powerful people through-out history have believed that what they did was in thebest interests of the people, and yet in relaity we find that it is at such times that the worse kind of conduct occurs.
Although I don;t mean to imply any real parallels between war and domination and the running of a web forum, I do think hisotry has some interesting lessons that can easilly be applied to the current e-sangha situation.
What we have here is a group of moderators who have the power to censor/alter/delete conversations on this good forum. Many of the decisions being made are, at leats in the interim, being made unilaterally without discussion with other moderators. When these matters are discussed with the others, I have no reason to believe that they are serving the will of the e-sangha membership. I do, instead, have every reason to believe that there is a strong agenda on the part of moderators of self-preservation. As such, when we members condemn a moderator for their actions, it is logical that other moderators feel threatened as we are questioning the very validity of your roles and the level of authority you should have.
Of recent, I have become aware of a few other members who share a particular discontent with one moderator in particular. There was an excellent analysis of the situation by another member given in the "dear moderator" forum with examples of other instances where this said moderator abused their authority. In fact, said moderator is down right harassing some members whom he disagrees with. the moderator has publically admitted to censoring this member for reasons that are not even in the rules of the forum. He has censored him "for his own good" in complete ignorance of the members culture and beliefs. He never even asked. Teyes, you are aware of this situation. The member has written to you about this. It is unacceptable for moderators to censor out ideas and words that are neither violent, vulgar, or agressive.
I've said my piece.
LONG LIVE THE BARBARIC BUDDHA!!!!
M.
I don't doubt the moderator's knowledge nor their general good will. I have been rude to one ( I won;t name said individual), and if I haven't appologized for this yet (I have a poor memory) then I'd like to so now. Sorry, really. Quite sincerely.
I have said this before (in a thread called "Dear moderator" which I can either no longer locate or has mysteriously disappeared) that power is a dangerous thing and that censorship should never be taken lightly (or in my opinion shouldn't happen at all). It has been said and proven for many centuries that power corrupts, even the Buddha spoke to this I believe. The vast majority of powerful people through-out history have believed that what they did was in thebest interests of the people, and yet in relaity we find that it is at such times that the worse kind of conduct occurs.
Although I don;t mean to imply any real parallels between war and domination and the running of a web forum, I do think hisotry has some interesting lessons that can easilly be applied to the current e-sangha situation.
What we have here is a group of moderators who have the power to censor/alter/delete conversations on this good forum. Many of the decisions being made are, at leats in the interim, being made unilaterally without discussion with other moderators. When these matters are discussed with the others, I have no reason to believe that they are serving the will of the e-sangha membership. I do, instead, have every reason to believe that there is a strong agenda on the part of moderators of self-preservation. As such, when we members condemn a moderator for their actions, it is logical that other moderators feel threatened as we are questioning the very validity of your roles and the level of authority you should have.
Of recent, I have become aware of a few other members who share a particular discontent with one moderator in particular. There was an excellent analysis of the situation by another member given in the "dear moderator" forum with examples of other instances where this said moderator abused their authority. In fact, said moderator is down right harassing some members whom he disagrees with. the moderator has publically admitted to censoring this member for reasons that are not even in the rules of the forum. He has censored him "for his own good" in complete ignorance of the members culture and beliefs. He never even asked. Teyes, you are aware of this situation. The member has written to you about this. It is unacceptable for moderators to censor out ideas and words that are neither violent, vulgar, or agressive.
I've said my piece.
LONG LIVE THE BARBARIC BUDDHA!!!!
M.
P.S. Despite my obivious disagreement with moderation, many thanks to ALL the moderators for devoting their time and energy to doing what they feel is best.
This is the reply from another moderator, Rickpa:
| QUOTE |
| Henry-la lives in Singapore, and is hip to many western things, but there are some things that many of us do that look like irreverence to the Buddhist refuge, and that seems most out of place on what's supposed to be a Buddhist forum. Henry isn't the only non-westerner who frequents these forums, and his offence at your signatures is probably shared by most of them. Being a scruffy westerner myself, such things don't bother me as much. I am, however, bothered on behalf of others to whom the Three Refugees are seen as being diminished by such posting. I guess there really isn't much to argue about. You have a right to say some things that cause people discomfort as you work for your own happiness, and you have a right to refrain from saying those things, or use your speech for the benefit of others. It looks like you have made your choice. You win, and others lose. |
I can see Henry point of view in the sense that
| QUOTE |
| others to whom the Three Refugees are seen as being diminished by such posting |
.
As I had said again and again, we're a International Board whereby members from all around the world join us for discussion. What might sounds reasonable to you might not be reasoanable to others. Its the same reson why "bad words" and some "street slangs" are banned in e-Sangha. Just as we step into a temple and we speak softly, we should show the same kind of respect to others too here at e-Sangha.
I do admit that we might not see eye to eye in all situations. It takes enormous amount of time and effort to keep this board running til this day. I agreed we have to learn from history. Histoy had taught us many things which include the diminishing of 2 Buddhism Forum just like us. Remember tricycle board and all the swearings and death threat? They had not reached our size and they had to close down for good.
I do consider "Barbaric Buddha" the phrase really in bad taste especially its in the signature. I had pm countless members regarding the signature and there are reasons behind it. Some members pasted Super Large Pictures of Buddha in their signature. This makes reading our forum distracting and difficult. Some had started to post commercial websites at their signature, and all I kindly remind them to take it out. We have to draw the line somewhere.
I do not want to disable the signature function just due to a few isolate incidents.
So again I hope that we can be considerate towards others when we post. We are not here to argue, we're here to learn. If we allow some "bad taste" remarks to be flooding all over our board, it will soon degenerate into "vulgar remarks', and probably in the end, there will be death threats. Since we are all Buddhists, show some compassion, whether towards the moderators or towards other members.
Just to let you know, its 5.00am in the morning in Singapore and I am still sorting out these problems. E-Sangha is not only a learning place to me. It's like my baby, my pride, my life and my joy. I'll do what it takes to make e-Sangha soar to greater heights and if there are less squabbling like that, it will make my work much easier.
Thanks.
Regards
Leo
As I had said again and again, we're a International Board whereby members from all around the world join us for discussion. What might sounds reasonable to you might not be reasoanable to others. Its the same reson why "bad words" and some "street slangs" are banned in e-Sangha. Just as we step into a temple and we speak softly, we should show the same kind of respect to others too here at e-Sangha.
I do admit that we might not see eye to eye in all situations. It takes enormous amount of time and effort to keep this board running til this day. I agreed we have to learn from history. Histoy had taught us many things which include the diminishing of 2 Buddhism Forum just like us. Remember tricycle board and all the swearings and death threat? They had not reached our size and they had to close down for good.
I do consider "Barbaric Buddha" the phrase really in bad taste especially its in the signature. I had pm countless members regarding the signature and there are reasons behind it. Some members pasted Super Large Pictures of Buddha in their signature. This makes reading our forum distracting and difficult. Some had started to post commercial websites at their signature, and all I kindly remind them to take it out. We have to draw the line somewhere.
I do not want to disable the signature function just due to a few isolate incidents.
So again I hope that we can be considerate towards others when we post. We are not here to argue, we're here to learn. If we allow some "bad taste" remarks to be flooding all over our board, it will soon degenerate into "vulgar remarks', and probably in the end, there will be death threats. Since we are all Buddhists, show some compassion, whether towards the moderators or towards other members.
Just to let you know, its 5.00am in the morning in Singapore and I am still sorting out these problems. E-Sangha is not only a learning place to me. It's like my baby, my pride, my life and my joy. I'll do what it takes to make e-Sangha soar to greater heights and if there are less squabbling like that, it will make my work much easier.
Thanks.
Regards
Leo
I haven't been moderating here for very long now, but I used to be a sysop on Compuserve and have, in general, had a fair amount of exposure to online bulletin board systems. These boards pose special challenges, especially in the context of trying to promote a vibrant community where Dharma can be discussed in a comfortable environment. The main problem is that folks, hiding behind a feeling of anonymity, will often post things that they would never say in a face to face conversation. Add this to a lack of body language, and it's very easy for conversations to spiral out of control, with people talking right past one-another, eventually resulting in the dreaded flame wars.
Here at E-Sangha, we do the best we can to put out these conflicts before they can get started. Sometimes this involves locking threads that look to be significant hotpoints or censoring particularly inappropriate remarks. Unfortunately there's no way to make everyone happy, so we settle on the best compromises that we can find. For the most part, though, these powers don't need to be exercised, as the members here do an excellent job of managing the points of conflict.
As for the Barbaric Buddha, well, I think that's primarily a cultural conflict. I don't think it's too much to ask to remove it, as it's akin to visiting a house where the policy is to remove your shoes when you enter the door. Not removing your shoes at their request is rather rude and I don't think many would say the owner of the house is oppressing the other's freedom in making such a request. Isn't it funny that we often cling to our words and opinions more than to even the shoes on our feet? As Buddhists, we might do well to leave our cherished beliefs at the door, too, without even being asked to do so.
-Dan
Here at E-Sangha, we do the best we can to put out these conflicts before they can get started. Sometimes this involves locking threads that look to be significant hotpoints or censoring particularly inappropriate remarks. Unfortunately there's no way to make everyone happy, so we settle on the best compromises that we can find. For the most part, though, these powers don't need to be exercised, as the members here do an excellent job of managing the points of conflict.
As for the Barbaric Buddha, well, I think that's primarily a cultural conflict. I don't think it's too much to ask to remove it, as it's akin to visiting a house where the policy is to remove your shoes when you enter the door. Not removing your shoes at their request is rather rude and I don't think many would say the owner of the house is oppressing the other's freedom in making such a request. Isn't it funny that we often cling to our words and opinions more than to even the shoes on our feet? As Buddhists, we might do well to leave our cherished beliefs at the door, too, without even being asked to do so.
-Dan
I don't diagree with the vast majority of what has been said, and as it is becoming clear I am likely acting out of some level of cultural ignorance as well. But did anyone, and I mean ANYONE, even once ask what was meant by barbaric buddha??? I was going to but the htread disappeared and I no longer remember who the member was. I personally love the word barbaric, its full of life and energy, and even a certain sense of pureness in it (as opposed to the violent views others may have of it). As such, I don;t care if I get to use it much, but I see excellent interpretations of the expression available and all I don't see anyone looking into these interpretations.
I'll gladly shut up about all of this if moderators would just talk to members in a rational manor before acting.
And Teyes, what the heck are doing up at this time of the morning??? It's 5 p.m. here. My gosh. Merci pour vos efforts!
M.
I'll gladly shut up about all of this if moderators would just talk to members in a rational manor before acting.
And Teyes, what the heck are doing up at this time of the morning??? It's 5 p.m. here. My gosh. Merci pour vos efforts!
M.
In cases where it is clear cut that there are rules being broken then we (as moderators) must act swiftly and vote on the action to be taken, but when it is a murky case of the teachings of one tradition that contradicts the teachings of another, then these things should be allowed to remain open for discussion. Since the 40 year period of time that Shakyamuni Buddha taught as an enlightened being here 2,500 years ago in NE India, there are many sutras and scriptures which have developed that clearly contrast with one another on many levels. Where many of our moderators here apparently do have a wealth of knowledge regarding particular traditions and aspects of the Buddha-dharma, not one of us could possibly know the entirety of the 84,000 paths/teachings. This is why a great deal of flexibility is required on our behalf in order to insure fairness in what should, or should not be censured. One thing I have noticed in the past is that Brother Henry does have the skill to inquire of those he is in disagreement with, exactly what source it is that they draw their views from. It is my belief that Henry is correct in not wanting anyone’s own personal opinions to be passed off as the actual teachings of the Buddha here on E-Sangha. Over the many years I have been moderating Buddhist websites I can attest that there are many charlatans out there who claim to know the "true dharma," yet when requested to quote specific scriptural references to back it up... ultimately they have none. Then there are those who have studied, but remain quite deluded because they have not practiced and applied what they have studied to their lives. I remember one time there was a Theravadin fundamentalist on one of the Buddhist forums I moderated in the past and this fellow claimed to be a monk yet he would verbally attack any who would attempt to bring Mahayana teachings onto the forum. It was obvious that he was a genius, and was also very well studied in the Pali Suttas, yet his manor indicated that there was no practice to complement his study of the dhamma and all he was, was a violent and bitter scholar with no real understanding of what it was that he was ramming down everyone’s throat. Well... eventually he was found out, as someone who lived in his city visited the monastery he claimed to practice at, and of course there had not ever been any Caucasian monks ordained by that order to date. I heard later that someone from the forum was suing him for defaming their character, or something asinine like that. Regardless, these are the sorts of things that we as moderators have to deal with. My request to the members of E-Sangha is to try to have some compassion in your heart for we moderators. While we are only human and in so being make many mistakes, we do appreciate your continued efforts in pointing out to us any issues you might come across. It is our intention to continue to keep our Sangha-site the very best place for serious Buddha-dharma dialogue and debate on the World Wide Web, and only through your feedback and advice can we do this.
Respectfully, ZS
Respectfully, ZS
All you moderator folks have my on-going thanks for doing what must sometimes be a thankless task.
Also, to the extent that I may have offended any of my national or international brothers and sisters, I do sincerely apologize. Have to admit I love language in all its forms ... including some that others might find questionable. Whether I will reform my four-letter repertoire in this kalpa is doubtful. I therefore rely on your impeccable good taste and diplomacy to rein in what may be, well, uh ... not right.
Thanks and gassho.
oh my. I must say I am having to try to deal with my disappointment and am having a lot of trouble letting it float away like a bubble. So, I am saying something and I truly truly do not mean any ill toward anyone or for anyone to have bad feelings. truly. But I came here this evening because I am feeling a bit bad about some stuff, and was tired of the constant bickering and pettiness (although there are nice people there too) of the geocaching forum. I hoped to come and read some interesting discussions, but saw this at the top. so even here, even here, there is bickering and some persons strive one way, others another. there is strife. there is divide. there are bad feelings.
please do not. there really is no need. If you are feeling bad about something, remember that bad is not the thing. it is from you. come on, you know it is better to try to think this way. take a break from reading online, go read a book, don't embroil yourself in online strife even when it is strikes a chord in you.
others read it. you are affecting many many people. all at once. so much potential.
and may I add that I thank the moderators for their generous use of their time to foster good feelings here.
please do not. there really is no need. If you are feeling bad about something, remember that bad is not the thing. it is from you. come on, you know it is better to try to think this way. take a break from reading online, go read a book, don't embroil yourself in online strife even when it is strikes a chord in you.
others read it. you are affecting many many people. all at once. so much potential.
and may I add that I thank the moderators for their generous use of their time to foster good feelings here.
i must point out that the fire-starter for the recent complains come from the Karmapa issue (note: i have merged all the past and present questions for Karmapa issue into one thread):
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=5026
one individual was asking, "Does anyone have any perspective on the 17th Karmapa(s)?" bro Rickpa and myself have unskillfully put off this question and have advised the individual not to ask. our reason is " we, moderators, are trying to prevent any illwill and negative emotions being generated during this discussion. we are not censoring anything, we are open-minded. please appreciate our good intention." unfortunately, he took it too personally and had been complaining abt it over the place.
another individual started a new thread:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=5090
my intention was to put a smiley face in order to prevent any more further tensions. unfortunately, the individual who wrote abt the Karmapa issue earlier on, made a complain again, thus the individual who started this thread, attacked me saying "To be honest Henry, I really think you need to reflect upon your own behaviour in this respect. Though my dedication to the three jewels is now unconditional, I am saddened to discover such self-righteousness on this forum."
soon, another individual joined in the "anti-moderator compaign", carried on with their discussion in "Dear Moderator" thread.
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=4284
and i was advising why "Barbarian Buddha" is not allowed, he doesn't listen and wrote more hatred msgs in the board. i have removed his priviledge posts but he still allows to read the posts from our board. my reason for not allowing the "Barberian Buddha" is as following:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=5026
one individual was asking, "Does anyone have any perspective on the 17th Karmapa(s)?" bro Rickpa and myself have unskillfully put off this question and have advised the individual not to ask. our reason is " we, moderators, are trying to prevent any illwill and negative emotions being generated during this discussion. we are not censoring anything, we are open-minded. please appreciate our good intention." unfortunately, he took it too personally and had been complaining abt it over the place.
another individual started a new thread:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=5090
my intention was to put a smiley face in order to prevent any more further tensions. unfortunately, the individual who wrote abt the Karmapa issue earlier on, made a complain again, thus the individual who started this thread, attacked me saying "To be honest Henry, I really think you need to reflect upon your own behaviour in this respect. Though my dedication to the three jewels is now unconditional, I am saddened to discover such self-righteousness on this forum."
soon, another individual joined in the "anti-moderator compaign", carried on with their discussion in "Dear Moderator" thread.
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=4284
and i was advising why "Barbarian Buddha" is not allowed, he doesn't listen and wrote more hatred msgs in the board. i have removed his priviledge posts but he still allows to read the posts from our board. my reason for not allowing the "Barberian Buddha" is as following:
| QUOTE |
| "why am i asking you to remove it? very simple answer. you said that you have taken refuge in Triple Gem, am i right? since you have taken refuge, i'm supposed that you must already received the refuge vows. what are the refuge vows? they are the twelve special commitments, Five Precepts and general guidelines. http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=2089 under the twelve special commitments: 12. Never to forsake the Three Jewels, even at the cost of our life, or as a joke. that's why it is offensive to say "Barbarien Buddha". you will break your refuge vow by saying this. you can say that i am self-righteous or so, but i am really care for your own good. freedom of speech is not freedom of karma. be cautious abt it." |
so therefore, it is not funny at all.
if i have been unskillfully dealing with you folks, i own you folks an apology. however, please do understand our intentions behind all these.
| QUOTE (littlelama_0 @ Jun 5 2004, 04:28 AM) |
| I have said this before (in a thread called "Dear moderator" which I can either no longer locate or has mysteriously disappeared) that power is a dangerous thing and that censorship should never be taken lightly (or in my opinion shouldn't happen at all). |
it is in the Recycle Bin section in order to prevent Guest Users to read it. have you search for it?
btw, you have the access to it. check it out.
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=4284
this is for those who have not read it:
"My Story, Why I setup e-Sangha" by bro Teyes
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php...t=ST&f=29&t=792
please support him and not to turn this board into a "marketplace", like those of Usenet, the old Tricycle board and etc.
Om Mani Padme Hung.
"My Story, Why I setup e-Sangha" by bro Teyes
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php...t=ST&f=29&t=792
please support him and not to turn this board into a "marketplace", like those of Usenet, the old Tricycle board and etc.
Om Mani Padme Hung.
About this 'Barbarian Buddha' thing.
It's far too open for interpretation to be taken offensively. It's not a full sentence and there is no verb.
Maybe he means a Buddha who was born a barbarian. (which was sort of what Buddha was.)
Or it could be akin to the admired Confucian concept of a 'Noble Savage'.
I think it's quite a long shot interpreting this as offensive.
It's far too open for interpretation to be taken offensively. It's not a full sentence and there is no verb.
Maybe he means a Buddha who was born a barbarian. (which was sort of what Buddha was.)
Or it could be akin to the admired Confucian concept of a 'Noble Savage'.
I think it's quite a long shot interpreting this as offensive.
| QUOTE |
| 12. Never to forsake the Three Jewels, even at the cost of our life, or as a joke. that's why it is offensive to say "Barbarien Buddha". you will break your refuge vow by saying this. you can say that i am self-righteous or so, but i am really care for your own good. freedom of speech is not freedom of karma. be cautious abt it." |
As I understand it, your job is to moderate posts that people would find offensive, not be our disciplinarian responsible for making sure we stick to our vows. It's our karma, why would you want to claim it.
I think it would help a lot more if moderators were a lot more frugal on the use of the warning system. I think it would be best if moderators voiced their complaints to the member on the board first, and only if the member cannot support his case, or apologise, should he be disciplined. The last time, I wasn't even given a chance to defend myself, I simply got a warning (which I understand is permanent). If moderators are unable to argue their point in the thread, then they shouldn't have the power of kicking someone off.
Pulling rank unecessarily only makes members on the board feel frustrated and censored because we know the power ultimately rests with you.
Back to Buddhism for crying out loud.
Just my two cents:
(1) Everyone, don't become attached. Not to a forum, not to words, not to emotions. It is all confusion of the mind.
(2) Don't take yourself serious. You are not this body, nor this life-time-thing.
(3) If you meet obstructions, take advantage of this opportunity to cultivate lovingkindness and patience.
Without developing enthusiams to work on this qualities you may be member of a buddhist forum for ten million years and will not make any progress towards enlightenment. No offense please.
Thank you for this great forum. Maybe some people spend to much time in it, to find an excuse not to cultivate like they know they should do. I'm talking from experience here.
One should try to make use of this forum without getting attached or wasting time here, but use it effectively to learn and to share experiences, and then move on to cultivate what one has learned.
Namo Amitabha!
(1) Everyone, don't become attached. Not to a forum, not to words, not to emotions. It is all confusion of the mind.
(2) Don't take yourself serious. You are not this body, nor this life-time-thing.
(3) If you meet obstructions, take advantage of this opportunity to cultivate lovingkindness and patience.
Without developing enthusiams to work on this qualities you may be member of a buddhist forum for ten million years and will not make any progress towards enlightenment. No offense please.
Thank you for this great forum. Maybe some people spend to much time in it, to find an excuse not to cultivate like they know they should do. I'm talking from experience here.
One should try to make use of this forum without getting attached or wasting time here, but use it effectively to learn and to share experiences, and then move on to cultivate what one has learned. Namo Amitabha!
I think its all about how we shout in we get the echo back.
If we come new into a house and we like to visit a community then the first thing can be that we are asked to put out our shoes, or we have to put down our hat?
Also we don't come in with some advertisement on our sticker which can offend the community we like to visit.
I personally have no problem with the >Barbarian Buddha< whatever this means???
And i didn't know i could destroy my refuge vow with ..........., but if some body comes to me and tells me ohh you made a mistake i have to be thankful in return, because he gave me a chance to see my faults.
To become angry in return is the wrong answer and this is no Buddhist attitude, in no tradition. Take the Therevada, or the Mahayana, or the Hinayana, in all traditions you have a code of ethic and all need to observe the word of the elder and the leader of the group.
The elder or the leader is no dictator per se but somebody who is experienced and can lead the group around all danger towards happiness!
To become haughty and angry on the moderators is a sign of not understanding how to reduce ego and selfish attitude. But its the sign people of the world in our days like to develop, i am the middlepoint of the universe and i wont my right, if there is any limitation of my freedom this is against democracy!
This is how people in the world do think in the west, specially young people!
But this is not necessary a practical beneficial way for a large Buddhist community.
There are some limitations OK. that's how it is here in e sangha, but very little limitations in my opinion. Normally the moderators give everybody a lot of freedome and they act in harmony with the majority of the wishes and on top of each and every single member if possible.
That is a very positive situation! And i personally have no desire to change this for the betterment of any more freedom. Freedom for what?
I feel free here in e sangha.
Sometimes in some rare situations i am also asked to stop a particular discussion, because i didn't see this can bring harm to many more people. So i too follow the wish of the moderator(s), and in case there was something unsaid i use my mail program within e sangha system to clear any point of question.
So it depends what we want?
Wishes Dave
If we come new into a house and we like to visit a community then the first thing can be that we are asked to put out our shoes, or we have to put down our hat?
Also we don't come in with some advertisement on our sticker which can offend the community we like to visit.
I personally have no problem with the >Barbarian Buddha< whatever this means???
And i didn't know i could destroy my refuge vow with ..........., but if some body comes to me and tells me ohh you made a mistake i have to be thankful in return, because he gave me a chance to see my faults.
To become angry in return is the wrong answer and this is no Buddhist attitude, in no tradition. Take the Therevada, or the Mahayana, or the Hinayana, in all traditions you have a code of ethic and all need to observe the word of the elder and the leader of the group.
The elder or the leader is no dictator per se but somebody who is experienced and can lead the group around all danger towards happiness!
To become haughty and angry on the moderators is a sign of not understanding how to reduce ego and selfish attitude. But its the sign people of the world in our days like to develop, i am the middlepoint of the universe and i wont my right, if there is any limitation of my freedom this is against democracy!
This is how people in the world do think in the west, specially young people!
But this is not necessary a practical beneficial way for a large Buddhist community.
There are some limitations OK. that's how it is here in e sangha, but very little limitations in my opinion. Normally the moderators give everybody a lot of freedome and they act in harmony with the majority of the wishes and on top of each and every single member if possible.
That is a very positive situation! And i personally have no desire to change this for the betterment of any more freedom. Freedom for what?
I feel free here in e sangha.
Sometimes in some rare situations i am also asked to stop a particular discussion, because i didn't see this can bring harm to many more people. So i too follow the wish of the moderator(s), and in case there was something unsaid i use my mail program within e sangha system to clear any point of question.
So it depends what we want?
Wishes Dave
| QUOTE |
| In cases where it is clear cut that there are rules being broken then we (as moderators) must act swiftly and vote on the action to be taken, but when it is a murky case of the teachings of one tradition that contradicts the teachings of another, then these things should be allowed to remain open for discussion. Since the 40 year period of time that Shakyamuni Buddha taught as an enlightened being here 2,500 years ago in NE India, there are many sutras and scriptures which have developed that clearly contrast with one another on many levels. Where many of our moderators here apparently do have a wealth of knowledge regarding particular traditions and aspects of the Buddha-dharma, not one of us could possibly know the entirety of the 84,000 paths/teachings. This is why a great deal of flexibility is required on our behalf in order to insure fairness in what should, or should not be censured. One thing I have noticed in the past is that Brother Henry does have the skill to inquire of those he is in disagreement with, exactly what source it is that they draw their views from. It is my belief that Henry is correct in not wanting anyone’s own personal opinions to be passed off as the actual teachings of the Buddha here on E-Sangha. Over the many years I have been moderating Buddhist websites I can attest that there are many charlatans out there who claim to know the "true dharma," yet when requested to quote specific scriptural references to back it up... ultimately they have none. Then there are those who have studied, but remain quite deluded because they have not practiced and applied what they have studied to their lives. I remember one time there was a Theravadin fundamentalist on one of the Buddhist forums I moderated in the past and this fellow claimed to be a monk yet he would verbally attack any who would attempt to bring Mahayana teachings onto the forum. It was obvious that he was a genius, and was also very well studied in the Pali Suttas, yet his manor indicated that there was no practice to complement his study of the dhamma and all he was, was a violent and bitter scholar with no real understanding of what it was that he was ramming down everyone’s throat. Well... eventually he was found out, as someone who lived in his city visited the monastery he claimed to practice at, and of course there had not ever been any Caucasian monks ordained by that order to date. I heard later that someone from the forum was suing him for defaming their character, or something asinine like that. Regardless, these are the sorts of things that we as moderators have to deal with. My request to the members of E-Sangha is to try to have some compassion in your heart for we moderators. While we are only human and in so being make many mistakes, we do appreciate your continued efforts in pointing out to us any issues you might come across. It is our intention to continue to keep our Sangha-site the very best place for serious Buddha-dharma dialogue and debate on the World Wide Web, and only through your feedback and advice can we do this. |
Beautifully said Zenshin!
I personally would like to thank all the moderators for doing a thankless job and preventing E-Sangha from becoming E-Chaos.
I don't know anything about the current upset, if it still exists. I do know that there are legitimate issues in spiritual endeavor -- issues to which individuals can contribute helpful insight. I also know that there are ego-trippers whose devotion to self does not especially interest me. I am grateful not to have to find the line between 'helpful' and 'ego-tripping' and equally grateful to those who, in deference to others, try to keep their soap-boxing in check.
Thanks to the moderators for doing their best to walk 'the razor's edge.'
Some thoughts:
1. Thank you to all the moderators. I have no disagreement with any of them thus far but, should that ever happen, I hope I would be mindfull of the teaching I was receiving.
2. I once volunteered a great deal of time as a fire fighter in the USA. Even though we received no pay and not much in the way of resources (just like eSangha and it's moderators) we were also questioned: Why did it take so long for you to arrive? Why can't you visit our school in the middle of a work day? It's a sad fact that most people don't think about the reality behind volunteer effort.
3. All this dispute and strife is very un-Buddhist.
4. Teyes - I read your story behind setting up eSangha and I was terrified for your wife. I was so relieved that she came home safely.
5. eSangha has given me the strength, access and community I needed to make significant lie changes. Thanks exclusively to my involvement in eSangha I have taken refuge in the three jewels, taken the five precepts and become a vegetarian. The changes in my life are profound.
A big thanks to all the moderators, to the community of eSangha and, most of all, to you Teyes.
Metta,
Chris
1. Thank you to all the moderators. I have no disagreement with any of them thus far but, should that ever happen, I hope I would be mindfull of the teaching I was receiving.
2. I once volunteered a great deal of time as a fire fighter in the USA. Even though we received no pay and not much in the way of resources (just like eSangha and it's moderators) we were also questioned: Why did it take so long for you to arrive? Why can't you visit our school in the middle of a work day? It's a sad fact that most people don't think about the reality behind volunteer effort.
3. All this dispute and strife is very un-Buddhist.
4. Teyes - I read your story behind setting up eSangha and I was terrified for your wife. I was so relieved that she came home safely.
5. eSangha has given me the strength, access and community I needed to make significant lie changes. Thanks exclusively to my involvement in eSangha I have taken refuge in the three jewels, taken the five precepts and become a vegetarian. The changes in my life are profound.
A big thanks to all the moderators, to the community of eSangha and, most of all, to you Teyes.
Metta,
Chris
I think that the moderators have done a great job for e-sangha. They have maintained a very conducive environment in the discussion and spreading of Buddhism.
If we follow the two greatest precept of Buddhism of not harming oneself and not harming others when posting messages then all will be fine. This is something that I learnt from the moderator Boom_Cat in one of his post and which I can see that he practises himself too. For all of us that claim to practise Buddhism, this amazingly simple precept brings a lot less suffering to oneself and others.
Leo, moderators and wonderful sangha..
all i want to say is thank you.
i stumbled upon e-sangha at a time when my world was flipped inside out and i was struggling to keep any faith in buddhism.
you guys helped me hang in there & re-light the flame.
That's priceless.
moves me to tears actually.
thanks for being here
all i want to say is thank you.
i stumbled upon e-sangha at a time when my world was flipped inside out and i was struggling to keep any faith in buddhism.
you guys helped me hang in there & re-light the flame.
That's priceless.
moves me to tears actually.
thanks for being here
It seems there is a general consensus that people such as myself should shut up about concerns with moderators. Apparently, asking to be allowed to freely exchange information and not be talked down to is very un-buddhist (said by several people in this thread so far) and even a silly foible that young people do.
This is not just the moderators saying this, it is the other members as well.
Apparently all this trouble is the fault of us outspoken fiew with perhaps unpopular ideas.
Since this is the will of the Sangha, then I will abide this and accept that my brand of buddhism perhaps just does not jive well enough here and therefor should be censored at times. So be it.
Before I leave this thread, I'd like to say the following things:
1) My EXTREME appologies if any of my postings were viewed as hateful. I'm very honest, not just online but in my daily life.
2) Henry, thank you for showing me that that I can still see the "dear moderator" thread.
3) Teyes, sleep more. And much thanks to you for your tireless efforts.
Peace
M.
This is not just the moderators saying this, it is the other members as well.
Apparently all this trouble is the fault of us outspoken fiew with perhaps unpopular ideas.
Since this is the will of the Sangha, then I will abide this and accept that my brand of buddhism perhaps just does not jive well enough here and therefor should be censored at times. So be it.
Before I leave this thread, I'd like to say the following things:
1) My EXTREME appologies if any of my postings were viewed as hateful. I'm very honest, not just online but in my daily life.
2) Henry, thank you for showing me that that I can still see the "dear moderator" thread.
3) Teyes, sleep more. And much thanks to you for your tireless efforts.
Peace
M.
| QUOTE (Dave @ Jun 5 2004, 03:49 PM) |
| I feel free here in e sangha. Sometimes in some rare situations i am also asked to stop a particular discussion, because i didn't see this can bring harm to many more people. So i too follow the wish of the moderator(s), and in case there was something unsaid i use my mail program within e sangha system to clear any point of question. So it depends what we want? |
i would like to point out that Lama Dave comes from a Kagyu monastic institution which supports Kunzig Shamarpa's candidate, Trinlay Thaye Dorje, as the Gyalwa Karmapa while i study in a Kagyu Dharma centre which supports Tai Situpa's candidate, Urgyen Trinley Dorje, as the Gyalwa Karmapa.
we never argue abt this difference and we always like to share Buddhadharma teachings with each other.
| QUOTE (samabudhi @ Jun 5 2004, 01:25 PM) |
| As I understand it, your job is to moderate posts that people would find offensive, not be our disciplinarian responsible for making sure we stick to our vows. It's our karma, why would you want to claim it. |
what is bodhicitta?
should i generate bodhicitta in my mouth but not in my heart? or should i generate bodhicitta in my mouth and in my heart?
By all means, bring whatever it is that you disagree with to my attention, but giving me a warning without so much as a discussion...?
This is how one treats children. You discipline them.
One does this so that they will hopefully take it upon them selves and develop self-discipline.
When one is an adult, it is no longer appropriate to assume the role of disciplinarian over them. There's only one person responsible for my actions. The reason discipline works with children is that they are still relient on their parents. They can't isolate themselves from their suffering, so they adapt. Adults have grown up and depend little on others, especially so in a forum. Trying to help them through disciplining them will only push them away - the more egotistical ones, the faster they'll leave. This doesn't make it any more acceptable though. If one truly has Bodhicitta, one will try harder than ever to help these people. They (the one's who are prone to running at the first site of trouble/the self-preservers), of all people, are the ones who need help. Buddhism is about confronting suffering, not running away from it.
Showing someone their fault and giving them black marks is not bodhicitta. Showing someone their fault and maybe saying 'Oh, but I'm sure it was just a slip of the tongue,' is. The act was essentially the same, but that is not what is important. It is the perceived intention on the part of the moderator which decides how someone takes moderation. If you hand out warnings like flyers at an intersection, I'm going to wonder about your motives and my attention will shift from the message to the messenger. (moon-finger etc.)
I see being a moderator and trying to help people as two different things. I think you see it as one.
People say we should stop arguing about this and return to Buddhism (even myself), but this is turning into a very Buddhist issue.
If you have a problem with someone, do you increase the divide and push them into the 'bad' category (like modern societies like to do with criminals and prisons), or do you show them the error of their ways (the ways which are ultimately against their best interests) and most importantly, maintain that it is not 'us good guys' and 'you bad guys' but rather that they are part of us, and not separate.
Claiming identity with those who think they are not worthy is very difficult. It requires that one give up one's own perception of self. But see the difference it makes. The odd child out who thinks of himself as useless and unwanted, and then some kids ask him if he'd like to play with them. Major turnaround. A boost of self esteem, a reason to try.
People don't need to be corrected as much as they need to be empowered. It's all about impure perceptions remember.
This is how one treats children. You discipline them.
One does this so that they will hopefully take it upon them selves and develop self-discipline.
When one is an adult, it is no longer appropriate to assume the role of disciplinarian over them. There's only one person responsible for my actions. The reason discipline works with children is that they are still relient on their parents. They can't isolate themselves from their suffering, so they adapt. Adults have grown up and depend little on others, especially so in a forum. Trying to help them through disciplining them will only push them away - the more egotistical ones, the faster they'll leave. This doesn't make it any more acceptable though. If one truly has Bodhicitta, one will try harder than ever to help these people. They (the one's who are prone to running at the first site of trouble/the self-preservers), of all people, are the ones who need help. Buddhism is about confronting suffering, not running away from it.
Showing someone their fault and giving them black marks is not bodhicitta. Showing someone their fault and maybe saying 'Oh, but I'm sure it was just a slip of the tongue,' is. The act was essentially the same, but that is not what is important. It is the perceived intention on the part of the moderator which decides how someone takes moderation. If you hand out warnings like flyers at an intersection, I'm going to wonder about your motives and my attention will shift from the message to the messenger. (moon-finger etc.)
I see being a moderator and trying to help people as two different things. I think you see it as one.
People say we should stop arguing about this and return to Buddhism (even myself), but this is turning into a very Buddhist issue.
If you have a problem with someone, do you increase the divide and push them into the 'bad' category (like modern societies like to do with criminals and prisons), or do you show them the error of their ways (the ways which are ultimately against their best interests) and most importantly, maintain that it is not 'us good guys' and 'you bad guys' but rather that they are part of us, and not separate.
Claiming identity with those who think they are not worthy is very difficult. It requires that one give up one's own perception of self. But see the difference it makes. The odd child out who thinks of himself as useless and unwanted, and then some kids ask him if he'd like to play with them. Major turnaround. A boost of self esteem, a reason to try.
People don't need to be corrected as much as they need to be empowered. It's all about impure perceptions remember.
.
. •
• .
• E-Sangha : Buddhist Community
A community is a group of people having common interests .
We come here from all around the globe , women , men , Buddhists , non-Buddhists . Some are new to Buddhism , some are long-time practitioners . All traditions are represented in our membership .
We've got interesting discussions about Buddhism , other topics , blogs , games arcade , chat room . Something for everyone , I guess .
Sangha is part of the Three Jewels in which we take refuge : the Buddha , the Dharma , the Sangha .
• In taking refuge in the Sangha, we set our inner sights on the ideal community of Noble Ones ( ariya-sangha ) -- those monks, nuns, laywomen, and laymen who, throughout history, have by their own diligent efforts successfully carried out the Buddha's instructions and gained at least a glimpse of the supreme happiness of nibbana .
If this is the direction in which we also wish to go, then it is to these individuals that we should turn for refuge .
We are also asked to turn to the monastic community ( bhikkhu-sangha ) for refuge, for it is thanks to the unbroken lineage of this 2,600-year-old institution that we are fortunate enough today to be able to hear the teachings.
• Sangha
Though we aren't a true Sangha , we can act as if we are .
Here is a wonderful teaching that can help all of us do that .
• E-sangha, Buddhist Forum & Buddhism Forum -> Topics in Buddhism -> Beginner's Buddhism
• Taking Refuge In The Triple Gems
• henry's post of December 17 2003, 10:09 AM
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=400
• The Meaning of Sangha
by Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche
• Excerpts
• The Sangha as Training Ground
• The sangha embodies two qualities that are truly reliable. The first, direct recognition of the absolute nature of mind, gives rise to the second, the liberation of delusion, confusion and the poisons of mind -- the root causes of suffering. Those who possess these qualities, and fully understand and uphold the vow of refuge, perceive and participate in life in a way that is not at all ordinary. As true sangha members, they are dedicated to refraining from harm and to helping others in any way they can. We can depend on them as examples, as well as for leadership and guidance.
• What can we do to sustain a strong sangha ?
First, we have to understand that practicing dharma means correcting our own faults, changing our own minds. As humans, we all have flaws. Just as sisters and brothers in a large family have to learn how to deal with one another, we have to learn how to help and support one another in the sangha. If we were holding hands to help each other cross a river and one person fell in, we wouldn't leave him there; we'd lift him out and keep going.
Simply hearing the teachings of the dharma isn't enough to completely transform ourselves. The teachings have to be implemented, and we begin by increasing our compassion. If someone in the sangha is rude to us, instead of responding in our habitual way, by being angry, sarcastic, hurtful or holding a grudge, we practice compassion.
As dharma practitioners we bring our understanding of karma to bear on difficult situations, recognizing that someone who upsets others is creating nonvirtue. Rather than being critical, we try to help, and in this way we create virtue. And when we make mistakes, we purify the karma we've created.
There are times when we are upset or irritated. Sometimes our body is out of sorts. Sometimes our subtle energies are out of balance and our mind is agitated. Sometimes we just wake up on the wrong side of the bed. We need to recognize that this emotional turmoil is not permanent, that it will pass, like clouds in the sky--and then patiently let it go by.
We shouldn't add fuel to the fire. If an irritable person says something annoying, we should remain patient and maintain respect. We shouldn't prolong or even try to correct the situation, but rather wait until the person calms down and then try to talk things over. We always need to focus on how we can help others, not on how we can benefit ourselves.
When anger arises, the best thing to do is to drop it. But if we can't, we remain patient and it will eventually dissolve. Because sangha members don't cling to anger for months or years, they don't inflict the kind of damage in relationships that resentment can cause.
If we try again and again to develop love, concern and patience, slowly we will make progress in our practice. Like grains of barley in a bag whose husks fall away as the grains rub together, sangha members working together can swiftly cleanse their minds' poisons and obscurations and contribute to each other's learning and growth.
The world isn't going to change for us. From the very beginning of our journey on the dharma path, we realize that what must be changed is our own mind -- that the mind is the arena for training. We recognize that nothing in samsara or nirvana is outside mind; all is rooted in it.
Our interactions within the sangha serve as a mirror that reflects our mind back to us so that we can use the methods of the dharma to correct ourselves. If we find ourselves responding to irritating situations in an ordinary way, we ask, " Why do I react this way? Why do I hold onto these things ? " By transforming mental poisons as they arise, we learn to deal more effectively with our immediate circumstances and live up to our spiritual goals.
At first, the sangha is like a collection of holy objects, such as statues, in a bag; they inevitably clank against one another. But if people trying to create something of benefit are at odds with one another, the negativity and disharmony undercut their spiritual aspirations.
On the other hand, if they treat each other with patience, respect, love and compassion, those qualities radiate out and benefit all those around them. When they go about their activities in the world, where there is less support for spiritual practice, they will have well-established habits of patience and kindness.
They won't lose them in stressful situations. In this way, the sangha provides a training ground for applying the dharma in the world at large, which is the true arena for our practice.
May we all come to know , to take refuge in , the Three Jewels .
May we all be well and happy !
Nico
....
. •
• .• E-Sangha : Buddhist Community
A community is a group of people having common interests .
We come here from all around the globe , women , men , Buddhists , non-Buddhists . Some are new to Buddhism , some are long-time practitioners . All traditions are represented in our membership .
We've got interesting discussions about Buddhism , other topics , blogs , games arcade , chat room . Something for everyone , I guess .
Sangha is part of the Three Jewels in which we take refuge : the Buddha , the Dharma , the Sangha .
• In taking refuge in the Sangha, we set our inner sights on the ideal community of Noble Ones ( ariya-sangha ) -- those monks, nuns, laywomen, and laymen who, throughout history, have by their own diligent efforts successfully carried out the Buddha's instructions and gained at least a glimpse of the supreme happiness of nibbana .
If this is the direction in which we also wish to go, then it is to these individuals that we should turn for refuge .
We are also asked to turn to the monastic community ( bhikkhu-sangha ) for refuge, for it is thanks to the unbroken lineage of this 2,600-year-old institution that we are fortunate enough today to be able to hear the teachings.
• Sangha
Though we aren't a true Sangha , we can act as if we are .
Here is a wonderful teaching that can help all of us do that .
• E-sangha, Buddhist Forum & Buddhism Forum -> Topics in Buddhism -> Beginner's Buddhism
• Taking Refuge In The Triple Gems
• henry's post of December 17 2003, 10:09 AM
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=400
• The Meaning of Sangha
by Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche
• Excerpts
• The Sangha as Training Ground
• The sangha embodies two qualities that are truly reliable. The first, direct recognition of the absolute nature of mind, gives rise to the second, the liberation of delusion, confusion and the poisons of mind -- the root causes of suffering. Those who possess these qualities, and fully understand and uphold the vow of refuge, perceive and participate in life in a way that is not at all ordinary. As true sangha members, they are dedicated to refraining from harm and to helping others in any way they can. We can depend on them as examples, as well as for leadership and guidance.
• What can we do to sustain a strong sangha ?
First, we have to understand that practicing dharma means correcting our own faults, changing our own minds. As humans, we all have flaws. Just as sisters and brothers in a large family have to learn how to deal with one another, we have to learn how to help and support one another in the sangha. If we were holding hands to help each other cross a river and one person fell in, we wouldn't leave him there; we'd lift him out and keep going.
Simply hearing the teachings of the dharma isn't enough to completely transform ourselves. The teachings have to be implemented, and we begin by increasing our compassion. If someone in the sangha is rude to us, instead of responding in our habitual way, by being angry, sarcastic, hurtful or holding a grudge, we practice compassion.
As dharma practitioners we bring our understanding of karma to bear on difficult situations, recognizing that someone who upsets others is creating nonvirtue. Rather than being critical, we try to help, and in this way we create virtue. And when we make mistakes, we purify the karma we've created.
There are times when we are upset or irritated. Sometimes our body is out of sorts. Sometimes our subtle energies are out of balance and our mind is agitated. Sometimes we just wake up on the wrong side of the bed. We need to recognize that this emotional turmoil is not permanent, that it will pass, like clouds in the sky--and then patiently let it go by.
We shouldn't add fuel to the fire. If an irritable person says something annoying, we should remain patient and maintain respect. We shouldn't prolong or even try to correct the situation, but rather wait until the person calms down and then try to talk things over. We always need to focus on how we can help others, not on how we can benefit ourselves.
When anger arises, the best thing to do is to drop it. But if we can't, we remain patient and it will eventually dissolve. Because sangha members don't cling to anger for months or years, they don't inflict the kind of damage in relationships that resentment can cause.
If we try again and again to develop love, concern and patience, slowly we will make progress in our practice. Like grains of barley in a bag whose husks fall away as the grains rub together, sangha members working together can swiftly cleanse their minds' poisons and obscurations and contribute to each other's learning and growth.
The world isn't going to change for us. From the very beginning of our journey on the dharma path, we realize that what must be changed is our own mind -- that the mind is the arena for training. We recognize that nothing in samsara or nirvana is outside mind; all is rooted in it.
Our interactions within the sangha serve as a mirror that reflects our mind back to us so that we can use the methods of the dharma to correct ourselves. If we find ourselves responding to irritating situations in an ordinary way, we ask, " Why do I react this way? Why do I hold onto these things ? " By transforming mental poisons as they arise, we learn to deal more effectively with our immediate circumstances and live up to our spiritual goals.
At first, the sangha is like a collection of holy objects, such as statues, in a bag; they inevitably clank against one another. But if people trying to create something of benefit are at odds with one another, the negativity and disharmony undercut their spiritual aspirations.
On the other hand, if they treat each other with patience, respect, love and compassion, those qualities radiate out and benefit all those around them. When they go about their activities in the world, where there is less support for spiritual practice, they will have well-established habits of patience and kindness.
They won't lose them in stressful situations. In this way, the sangha provides a training ground for applying the dharma in the world at large, which is the true arena for our practice.
May we all come to know , to take refuge in , the Three Jewels .
May we all be well and happy !
Nico
....
| QUOTE (samabudhi @ Jun 6 2004, 12:33 AM) |
| People don't need to be corrected as much as they need to be empowered. It's all about impure perceptions remember. |
may we practise Buddhadharma as a path for perception of experience.
may we finally attain the pure perception thru the practice of Buddhadharma.
sadhu sadhu sadhu.
littlelama_0 said:
| QUOTE |
| But did anyone, and I mean ANYONE, even once ask what was meant by barbaric buddha??? |
I don't think I saw anyone ask that. But I also didn't see you supply any kind of clarification.
I wasn't offended because of my "western" education. "Barbaric", I was taught in college is a word that originally described borderland people. The term came from a mocking of those borderland people's language. The people mocking were part of the Roman Empire, and they heard the language of outsiders as sounding like "bar-bar", so, they called them "barbarians".
In Buddhism, it has been a transation of "mleccha" -- a word that denotes uncivilized outsiders that don't have the dharma.
So, when I saw this poster signing off with "barbarian buddha", I thought he/she might be referring to the fact that he/she is an outsider of the cultural sphere of Buddhadharma and yet has buddha-nature. Therefore, he/she is a "barbarian buddha".
I didn't take offense for the reasons given above.
Is this "much to do about nothing"? (woops that's a "western" literary reference
)PLUR (peace, love, understanding, and respect) y'all.
Quite a few of the links that Henry posted above concern posts/issues that I raised about my perceptions (these are my perceptions only, and have no bearing on anything except the fettered workings of my mind) of censorship of questions that did not break any rules, and of my perception of Henry using unskilled words towards others (ignorant, fool, etc.) which I found offensive. If you read his replies to my posts you may see how came to feel that they were very sanctmonius in tone. This is no-doubt a cultural misinterpretation on my part. I have decided to stay out of the forums where I might offend Henry (this one excepted) and my intention is to make positive contributions to E-Sangha. It has been very good practice to watch the indignant and silly ways my mind has reacted to what was said.
Thank you all moderators for your sincere efforts in bringing this forum online.
Thank you Henry for all of your efforts and good will.
I ask forgiveness from any being that I have harmed with my words, thoughts or actions.
May you all receive the blessing of peace, happiness, and well-being.
In Dhamma,
Jim
Thank you all moderators for your sincere efforts in bringing this forum online.
Thank you Henry for all of your efforts and good will.
I ask forgiveness from any being that I have harmed with my words, thoughts or actions.
May you all receive the blessing of peace, happiness, and well-being.
In Dhamma,
Jim
| QUOTE (kunzang @ Jun 6 2004, 01:06 PM) |
| In Buddhism, it has been a transation of "mleccha" -- a word that denotes uncivilized outsiders that don't have the dharma. So, when I saw this poster signing off with "barbarian buddha", I thought he/she might be referring to the fact that he/she is an outsider of the cultural sphere of Buddhadharma and yet has buddha-nature. Therefore, he/she is a "barbarian buddha". |
yup. according to Arya Asanga, a region where any one of the four assemblies or groups (of Bhikkshu, Bhikkshuni, Upasaka and Upasika) dwell is a central country, and a country where they do not dwell is called a barbaric land.
| QUOTE (littlelama_0 @ Jun 5 2004, 10:47 PM) |
| Apparently all this trouble is the fault of us outspoken view with perhaps unpopular ideas. |
It's not only uncommon to question the Dharma, but even more it is an important part of learning process. The Buddha always encouraged His disciples to question everything until they understand it. Only then they should accept the truth they have discovered and place great faith in it.
The truth is not popular, nor is it unpopular. The truth is.
Namo Amitabha!
henry
Posted: Jun 2 2004, 10:57 AM
Posted: Jun 2 2004, 10:57 AM
| QUOTE |
| freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of karma. be careful and responsible for what you are going to write. the Karmapa issue DID cause a schism within the Karma Kagyu tradition. since it has cool down, why do you want to add salt to a healing scar? |
anattanyia
Was it about the Karmapa issue, your original question?
In case you say yes, we Kagyü and also Non-Kagyü do agree not to discuss this issue in this board for obverse reasons.
Because its (it was) a hot issue, with too many heart broken souls at the end.
Too many people did became very angry, offended, confused and heart broken.
So some of us made our experience in the past in different yahoo lists etc. including myself.
If you are interested to discuss the Karmapa issue please feel free to visit the www.Karmapa_discussion.yahoogroups.com Sign up and become a member.
Or go to www.Karmapa_yahoogroups.com
In this list you can ask all questions and you will get all sorts of reply. Just how people feel to answer, some answers are very profound deep and with compassion and some answers are just ........bull****! In my humble opinion.
So i can understand that you may need informations concerning the Karmapa issue (if you are a Kagyu member) if you are not a Kagyü member and you look for a new thrill this topic is a waist of your time.
Some topics we all agree not to discuss in this board, because the past did teach us not to repeat the mistakes again and again.
This board is like a sangha (online sangha) we have to take care that this sangha is not split up by discussions like the Karmapa issue, because we have also different people who suport both sides within the Karma Kagyu school.
We all agree that we want to be open for as much people and different schools as possible (at least its teyes wish) and this is also my wish!
In order to continual to be open for so many different Buddhist we need a specific code of ethic (some may call it moderation) which is suitable and acceptable for all aboard of this virtual (spiritual) switch board.
If you go in the dry wood and you like to make fire, and you are told not to do that because of obverse reasons and still you do that then it can happen that a small fire can destroy the entire forest.
We know that such small fire can become a huge fire storm in the mind of the members and we want to protect all those from this great fire of hatred and confusion.
We are aware that the destruction of sangha can bring harm in the long run as well in the short time. The Karmic consequences are too bad and not worth to taste.
A rebirth in the lower realms is not only one rebirth but a chain of rebirth's for Kalpas until we become a human again. Maybe a human without the Buddha-dharma at that time??? Who knows what are the basic conditions at that time?
We are more then 2000 members in this board and we have to take care we don't become like many online boards are already.
Just have a look at the different yahoogroups within Tibetan Buddhism.
Follow the thread and after a while you will see the differents, after some exchange with people who don't like your post you will understand why it is good not to shake up all sorts of hot issues and topics.
Wishes Dave
| QUOTE |
| Was it about the Karmapa issue, your original question? |
I guess you guys can't read - or understand anything that I write. That's your problem, not mine. If you and Henry want to keep babbling about the Karmapa issue - go right ahead - as I stated earlier, I am finished with the topic. I am moving on into forums where I can communicate with people who want to discuss the Dhamma. You guys can babble away here in your santimonius tones all you want. I tried to make my apologies and peace, but apparently it fell on deaf ears.
Let me also thank the moderators for their thankless task of maintaining some order in the chaos.
Let me also convey a special thanks to Henry...
one thousand praises ....for his kind but stern attention in keeping this Sangha what I came here for...Buddhism!
John
Let me also convey a special thanks to Henry...
one thousand praises ....for his kind but stern attention in keeping this Sangha what I came here for...Buddhism!John
| QUOTE (anattaniya @ Jun 7 2004, 05:29 AM) | ||
I guess you guys can't read - or understand anything that I write. That's your problem, not mine. If you and Henry want to keep babbling about the Karmapa issue - go right ahead - as I stated earlier, I am finished with the topic. I am moving on into forums where I can communicate with people who want to discuss the Dhamma. You guys can babble away here in your santimonius tones all you want. I tried to make my apologies and peace, but apparently it fell on deaf ears. |
Lama Dave is just making some suggestions or recommendations to you if you are still interested on that controversial topic.
why are you so work up???
I have only just noticed this thread today, and considering it is my sig and I, that has generaly been discussed, and also having discoved an inaccurate history of events, posted by Henry I feel it only appropriate I have my very last say on the matter, to set the record straight, in response to those innacuracies found in Henry's message, written on the 5th June 3.33 AM.
Henry writes -
Henry writes -
| QUOTE |
| i must point out that the fire-starter for the recent complains come from the Karmapa issue...another individual started a new thread: http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=5090 my intention was to put a smiley face in order to prevent any more further tensions |
The thread I began entitled 'Religious and Superstitious Buddhism' was initiated in response to my reading of the Panna Youth Centre thread [nothing to do with the Karmapa issue -IMO it was about Henrys anger, at a Shravakayana for criticising the Mahayana], expressing how personaly shocked I was at your language and attitude, indicating that a greater composure was needed.
| QUOTE |
| unfortunately, the individual who wrote about the Karmapa issue earlier on, made a complaint again, thus the individual who started this thread, attacked me saying "To be honest Henry, I really think you need to reflect upon your own behaviour in this respect. Though my dedication to the three jewels is now unconditional, I am saddened to discover such self-righteousness on this forum." |
The person concerned, was supporting my view regarding your behaviour on the Panna Youth thread, and was refering to a previous experience of your behaviour, on the Karmapa thread, to emphasise his point [first time Karmapa was raised in that thread, and the first time I had heard of this dispute with you and he]. You then suggested he was creating schisms in the Sangha, upon which I wrote the above comment, to highlight that your own behaviour was IMO, not causing any unity either. This was not an attack, just an observation, as I was hoping you might reflect upon your own condition, rather than be so dogmatic so often. You yourself constantly refer to the fact that you have our [ESangha membership] best interests at heart, yet when I try to defend better standards on ESangha, you took offence, and rather than looking to yourself, you focused your attention on me, and then, threw the comment reproduced below, at me -
Henry wrote-
| QUOTE |
| then, if you feel uncomfortable, please feel free to leave our forum. we do not force anyone to participate anything, right? and i would suggest you to remove the signature: this signature is an insult to the Buddha. i warn you. |
There was no attempt to ask me what my sig meant, no attempt to treat me with the dignity that we all deserve as adults, just a simple dismissive comment, suggesting I just shut up or leave, and then a blatant dogmatic accusation that I was insulting the Buddha. The constant use of 'I' in this context gave no indication that any others were involved in this decision on the 28th May at 1.13 AM.
| QUOTE |
| and i was advising why "Barbarian Buddha" is not allowed, he doesn't listen and wrote more hatred msgs in the board |
Understandably I was very angry at the previous dismissive comment and accusation, but chose to avoid confronting you due to my negative feelings toward you. Rather than write any further messages to you, I wrote to Teyes asking for arbitration, as I felt that any attempt to reason with you would be ignored, and tempers might get frayed - this in my opinion was the honorable thing to do.
The only advice you gave regarding my sig was that it was breaking the Three Jewels [along with being an insult to the Buddha], yet still you had not asked me what it meant or tried to make any attempt at negotiation, so how could you or anyone else possibly know if I was breaking any precept.
The only other message I wrote about you and our situation, was on the Dear Moderator thread [which was the first, message I wrote, after waiting several days for some kind of arbitration, after your dismissive and accusative statement], to highlight that you yourself had broken ESangha rules [rules you were so insistent others abide by], in regard to your behaviour toward me. I wrote no more messages to you, my behaviour was calm and resonable at all times, and absolutely wrote no messages of hatred.
| QUOTE |
| so therefore, it is not funny at all. |
With this I concur completely.
| QUOTE |
| if i have been unskillfully dealing with you folks, i own you folks an apology. however, please do understand our intentions behind all these. |
Like everyone else, I do understand the intentions behind the need for moderation, so that ESangha will remain the wonderfull resource and community it is. But when it is the very lack of skill, employed by a moderator that has caused so much trouble and recrimination, that is difficult to forgive, especialy after so much power was weilded so unecessarily and so hurtfully. I am doing my best to find forgiveness concerning the recent situation, but to discover this innacurate history of events, and discover I am being accused of deliberately writing hatefull messages, just doesnt help, and it is I that remains on a 40% warning.
It is my every intention to support continued elevated standards on ESangha, but it takes those with elevated standard themselves to enforce such a state of affairs. Lack of trust in the moderators, is just as dangerous as bad behaviour amongst its membership. In general I have found the moderators to be fair and helpfull, and will fully support their work, and I thank them for the time they give, to keep ESagha successfull, but I cannot be expected to ignore an injustice commited by a moderator, it would be unethical, IMO.
PS - it seems to me Henry, that your received two independent complaints, close together, regarding your behaviour on ESangha, mixed them together by being defensive rather than reflective, and things just escalated thereafter.
Rigba
Ghunjan
Dharma Das, Gnostic Daemon, Wild Wood Wiseard, Shamanic Siddhi, Deep Green Anrachic, Veggy, Fag.
"There is enough virtue in the world to be hatefull, but not enough humanity to be divine"
"Ego is like fire. It is a good servant but a bad master"
i must confess at first i found henry kind of "offish"
but now that i know a little about henry
i find his style of no B.S. straight and to the point
very refreshing
he is a dharma protector
and no we are not pals
keep up the great work moderators
may all beings be free from suffering
may all beings be free from the causes of suffering
may all beings be happy
may all beings find the causes of happiness
dan
but now that i know a little about henry
i find his style of no B.S. straight and to the point
very refreshing
he is a dharma protector
and no we are not pals
keep up the great work moderators
may all beings be free from suffering
may all beings be free from the causes of suffering
may all beings be happy
may all beings find the causes of happiness
dan
Hello, teyes and all of esangha!
I'm glad you've brought this topic up. I was one of those who voiced concern as to the moderators and their role(s) at esangha. It is a great blessing orf modern technology for us to have this electronic community. Likewise, we are blessed to have individuals dedicated to the Dharma and willing to give freely of their time and life experience. Thank you all so much for your hard work. On the other hand, will the moderators step up and call out the chauvinism of Western and Eastern culture and really put the issue of "Right Speech" to the test, so to speak, when it comes to paternalistic snd condescending comments made here towards women? I'm not saying we need a Politically Correct Speech police. Yet, I am wondering if it is going to be the consensus of the community for people to disrespect women or not? Ante up! While there needs to a respect for diverse political and social perspectives, I am hoping the moderators will step up and start warning people who disrespect people with chauvinistic comments. I ask myself WWBD? What would Buddha do? Would he tell the women disrespected to "Just let it slide off your back." OR Would the Buddha say what is the root of this phenomena. While AmeriKKKa may not be the leader in human rights anymore, (Hah! like it ever was!) we aren't in the 1800's either. Additionally, I'd like to ask "What kind of place do we want esangha to become?" Perhaps there is female chauvinism or reaction to male chauvinism sometimes. Is this subject going to be swept under the rug? Once someone says something demeaning, it's already been said and thus read OR can we evolve into some kind of entity that is more self-erspecting? I ask the women in the sangha to let their feelings be known and I petition the moderators to respond with what they think and feel about this issue. I don't know what the tiff is about the Karmapa tradition or Barbaric Buddha. I do know this community has attracted all sorts of different individuals at different stages in their emotional maturity. I find it sad so many people parrot doctrinaire ideas and act like their monks when they're not. Additionally, I find some of the attitudes about sexuality, women's control overreproductive health and personal responsibility, i.e. karma to be antiquated, to say the least. So while the moderators do a great job and put up with a lot of attitude, I'd say there's room for improvement and greater respect for women. If we really are the Big Boat, I hope to see some consensus on this subject.
Cordially,
chrysallisziTN
I'm glad you've brought this topic up. I was one of those who voiced concern as to the moderators and their role(s) at esangha. It is a great blessing orf modern technology for us to have this electronic community. Likewise, we are blessed to have individuals dedicated to the Dharma and willing to give freely of their time and life experience. Thank you all so much for your hard work. On the other hand, will the moderators step up and call out the chauvinism of Western and Eastern culture and really put the issue of "Right Speech" to the test, so to speak, when it comes to paternalistic snd condescending comments made here towards women? I'm not saying we need a Politically Correct Speech police. Yet, I am wondering if it is going to be the consensus of the community for people to disrespect women or not? Ante up! While there needs to a respect for diverse political and social perspectives, I am hoping the moderators will step up and start warning people who disrespect people with chauvinistic comments. I ask myself WWBD? What would Buddha do? Would he tell the women disrespected to "Just let it slide off your back." OR Would the Buddha say what is the root of this phenomena. While AmeriKKKa may not be the leader in human rights anymore, (Hah! like it ever was!) we aren't in the 1800's either. Additionally, I'd like to ask "What kind of place do we want esangha to become?" Perhaps there is female chauvinism or reaction to male chauvinism sometimes. Is this subject going to be swept under the rug? Once someone says something demeaning, it's already been said and thus read OR can we evolve into some kind of entity that is more self-erspecting? I ask the women in the sangha to let their feelings be known and I petition the moderators to respond with what they think and feel about this issue. I don't know what the tiff is about the Karmapa tradition or Barbaric Buddha. I do know this community has attracted all sorts of different individuals at different stages in their emotional maturity. I find it sad so many people parrot doctrinaire ideas and act like their monks when they're not. Additionally, I find some of the attitudes about sexuality, women's control overreproductive health and personal responsibility, i.e. karma to be antiquated, to say the least. So while the moderators do a great job and put up with a lot of attitude, I'd say there's room for improvement and greater respect for women. If we really are the Big Boat, I hope to see some consensus on this subject.
Cordially,
chrysallisziTN
Thanks for setting the record straight Ghunjan.
I have appreciated the moderators' work. The moderators are a little fussier than i or some others might like, but that is better than not fussy enough, because i have seen that lead to chaos.
But i am hoping for a statement that the absense of any female moderators is not a policy of this board.
But i am hoping for a statement that the absense of any female moderators is not a policy of this board.
.
| QUOTE (mindbird @ Jun 7 2004, 08:23 AM) |
I have appreciated the moderators' work. The moderators are a little fussier than i or some others might like, but that is better than not fussy enough, because i have seen that lead to chaos. But i am hoping for a statement that the absense of any female moderators is not a policy of this board. |
It's not .
I am a woman . I was asked to be a Moderator .
I declined .
Nico
. •
• .....
The issue of moderators always arise when an online forum matures. I'm a moderator over at www.were-here.com (almost never visit the place these days though) and I remember how easy it was for me to claim that my actions reflected the interest of the board when I was really operating solo.
Being a moderator is tricky business and I'm sure even more so in the case of a religious board like this. And I have to say, in the beginning I was terribly unhappy with many moderators. Their behavior in the Correcting Buddhist Misconceptions thread in "Other religions" was really offensive, and their comments weren't even directed at me. When a moderator accused a member for being full of "piss and vinegar", I was this close to writing a complaint to teyes.
However, I realize that moderators are people too, with egos to protect and flaws to iron out. And some of these moderators, upon closer inspection, are actually very direct and to the point, being efficient about their work. This may often appear offensive, but may actually be skillful behaviour.
Sometimes though, they do go out of line, and when they starting calling members names and threatens them, things have gone too far. For a member to do it is not so bad, but the moderators require lots of integrity and compassion.
I greatly respect the work you people put into this forum, as I know first hand how much work it is. But like for the rest of us, it's important to differentiate between your own interests and the interests of the public. When you start confusing the two, claiming you're serving the public when you're in fact blowing your own trumpet, you're on dangerous ground.
This is meant as a general statement. I have nobody in particular in mind.
With metta,
Kunsang
Being a moderator is tricky business and I'm sure even more so in the case of a religious board like this. And I have to say, in the beginning I was terribly unhappy with many moderators. Their behavior in the Correcting Buddhist Misconceptions thread in "Other religions" was really offensive, and their comments weren't even directed at me. When a moderator accused a member for being full of "piss and vinegar", I was this close to writing a complaint to teyes.
However, I realize that moderators are people too, with egos to protect and flaws to iron out. And some of these moderators, upon closer inspection, are actually very direct and to the point, being efficient about their work. This may often appear offensive, but may actually be skillful behaviour.
Sometimes though, they do go out of line, and when they starting calling members names and threatens them, things have gone too far. For a member to do it is not so bad, but the moderators require lots of integrity and compassion.
I greatly respect the work you people put into this forum, as I know first hand how much work it is. But like for the rest of us, it's important to differentiate between your own interests and the interests of the public. When you start confusing the two, claiming you're serving the public when you're in fact blowing your own trumpet, you're on dangerous ground.
This is meant as a general statement. I have nobody in particular in mind.
With metta,
Kunsang
| QUOTE (littlelama_0 @ Jun 5 2004, 04:47 AM) |
| It seems there is a general consensus that people such as myself should shut up about concerns with moderators. Apparently, asking to be allowed to freely exchange information and not be talked down to is very un-buddhist (said by several people in this thread so far) and even a silly foible that young people do. This is not just the moderators saying this, it is the other members as well. |
Please keep my request in mind good friend.
| QUOTE |
| My request to the members of E-Sangha is to try to have some compassion in your heart for we moderators. While we are only human and in so being make many mistakes, we do appreciate your continued efforts in pointing out to us any issues you might come across. It is our intention to continue to keep our Sangha-site the very best place for serious Buddha-dharma dialogue and debate on the World Wide Web, and only through your feedback and advice can we do this. |
Respectfully, ZS
Henry, you aren't everyones daddy. I think there are too many egos getting hurt here, and henry seems to think everything he does is "good for the sangha" while he's telling people to (basically) **** off, without being flexiable.
It seems people want it straight forward, so that's how I see it.
Best wishes for everyone
It seems people want it straight forward, so that's how I see it.
Best wishes for everyone
I am reluctantly offering my 0.02 on this topic...
The moderators of this forum-- including those I have locked horns with in the past-- do an excellent job. This forum is not USENET or IRC. Teyes, and perhaps others, have put up their personal $ to WWW host this site. This sacrifice gives the sponsors to personal right to maintain whatever forum ethos they desire, and thus the right to choose as they please the counsel to assist them in maintaining that ethos-- moderators. If you don't like it, leave.
In general people are good and well intentioned, doing the best they can given their situation in life and their degree of cultivation of wisdom and compassion. That goes for moderators and contributors alike, and that goes for both those who are kind and gentle and those who are seemingly causing troubles.
The choice is ours. We can choose pure perception and look at our companions in this forum as companions on the path, each doing the best they can. If we do so, we will respond to eachother and help eachother in that way. Skillfully and compassionately assisting eachother without judgement or anger. Alternately, we can frame our companions in this forum in terms of friend & foe, defender & enemy of the dharma, etc.
In general we don't know the thoughts and motivations of others, and it is best to admit our uncertainty. This forum is such a small sliver of any individual's life that we can not possibly claim to have knowledge of their merit and wisdom-- or lack thereof. To compound that uncertainty, our companions on this board include people from all over the world, from various Buddhist traditions, and from various approaches to practice and study.
The choice is again ours. With that in mind, we can either play judge, jury and executioner-- of either contributors (if we are moderators) or of moderators (if we are contributors)-- or we can accept our uncertainty of others, and work instead to give everyone without exception the necessary support and tools for growth and realization without criticism or judgement.
Just some thoughts.
It's really not a big deal and I encourage everyone in their continued good work here.
The moderators of this forum-- including those I have locked horns with in the past-- do an excellent job. This forum is not USENET or IRC. Teyes, and perhaps others, have put up their personal $ to WWW host this site. This sacrifice gives the sponsors to personal right to maintain whatever forum ethos they desire, and thus the right to choose as they please the counsel to assist them in maintaining that ethos-- moderators. If you don't like it, leave.
In general people are good and well intentioned, doing the best they can given their situation in life and their degree of cultivation of wisdom and compassion. That goes for moderators and contributors alike, and that goes for both those who are kind and gentle and those who are seemingly causing troubles.
The choice is ours. We can choose pure perception and look at our companions in this forum as companions on the path, each doing the best they can. If we do so, we will respond to eachother and help eachother in that way. Skillfully and compassionately assisting eachother without judgement or anger. Alternately, we can frame our companions in this forum in terms of friend & foe, defender & enemy of the dharma, etc.
In general we don't know the thoughts and motivations of others, and it is best to admit our uncertainty. This forum is such a small sliver of any individual's life that we can not possibly claim to have knowledge of their merit and wisdom-- or lack thereof. To compound that uncertainty, our companions on this board include people from all over the world, from various Buddhist traditions, and from various approaches to practice and study.
The choice is again ours. With that in mind, we can either play judge, jury and executioner-- of either contributors (if we are moderators) or of moderators (if we are contributors)-- or we can accept our uncertainty of others, and work instead to give everyone without exception the necessary support and tools for growth and realization without criticism or judgement.
Just some thoughts.
It's really not a big deal and I encourage everyone in their continued good work here.
| QUOTE (vicious @ Jun 7 2004, 05:59 PM) |
| Henry, you aren't everyones daddy. I think there are too many egos getting hurt here, and henry seems to think everything he does is "good for the sangha" while he's telling people to (basically) **** off, without being flexiable. It seems people want it straight forward, so that's how I see it. Best wishes for everyone |
what to say?????
straight forward yes
to the point yes
does that bother your ego......................you decide!
those that complain have no scense of shame.....
no scense of shame...
only you to blame...
no scense of shame...
only you to blame...
vicious
Posted on Jun 7 2004, 11:59 PM
Posted on Jun 7 2004, 11:59 PM
| QUOTE |
| Henry, you aren't everyones daddy. I think there are too many egos getting hurt here, and henry seems to think everything he does is "good for the sangha" while he's telling people to (basically) **** off, without being flexiable. It seems people want it straight forward, so that's how I see it. Best wishes for everyone |
Thing is, it can be very helpful first if you visit this place (after you signed up) and you first try to post in this board, to develop understanding and trust in the work of the moderators.
There is much to understand why moderators act sometimes strict or harsh.
Sometimes we can not see the past chain of developments of an individual who behaved in a inappropriate manner before and there is a history taken into account in order to understand sudden actions done by the moderators.
So it would be more easy for everybody not to irritate the moderators to begin with, after you signed up here in this board.
Better to ask the "why", or to "explain yourself" in a good manner. This can be a helpful for the moderators and for everybody to develop understanding.
The recent developments of some new people who signed up in e sangha did show me some are ready to go straight into any conflict instead of trying to dissolve any misunderstanding before it can develop into a issue.
Its not the case that the moderators have to be wise and take care, in the opposite we are challenged to practice wise and compassinate solutions, as Z.S. said before, the moderators depend on our in and out, further, the modrator's are just humans and not all are saints.
It isn't the case that the moderators in general overreact, in the opposite they are normally very patient and wait (in my opinion sometimes too long) until they take some actions.
So i still have confidence in the work of the moderators.
Wishes Dave
| QUOTE |
| The recent developments of some new people who signed up in e sangha did show me some are ready to go straight into any conflict instead of trying to dissolve any misunderstanding before it can develop into a issue. |
Dave;
I have to agree with you on this point! Sadly, some new members tend to see E-Sangha as an arena in which to do battle, looking for confrontation on every viewpoint.
~NP
NewPearl
Posted: Jun 8 2004, 07:28 PM
Posted: Jun 8 2004, 07:28 PM
| QUOTE |
| I have to agree with you on this point! Sadly, some new members tend to see E-Sangha as an arena in which to do battle, looking for confrontation on every viewpoint. |
Before e sangha deterioate i will have an eye on the future development in e sangha!
Dave
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.