Good Stuff, Robby!

Have you developed any overall theories or observations on the development of the Gohonzon?

As for your disclaimer - duly noted.

Cheers
Q

I have a few observations; but no real theory. We will see some changes in configuration over time. But I would not call these progressions; or that one configuration is better. The later ones are generally prettier -- his calligraphy skill seems to have improved.

not to hijack thread but i think dejavu is like a spiritual anomoly ....it's like our impurity of our spirit body/ chakra etc is doing something and our conscious minds get this wierd deja vu feeling.....it always sparks interest in the beholder, but i think it is like the signal gets messed up.....

what do you mean by synchronicity


sorry for interlude folks

MarkP wrote:



Mark,

Gohonzon is not the name of the Omandala. Gohonzon means Object of Reverence. In 1279, Toki Jonin asked what he should take as the Gohonzon. Nichiren instructed him to carve a statue of the Eternal Shakyamuni flanked by the 4 attendants. No where does he say that either the Mandala or Statuary is preferred. Nikko did not say that either.

When Nikko insisted on the 4 attendants being present, he likely relied on the kind of advice Nichiren gave to Toki Jonin. Niko said all that was needed to eye open the statue as the Buddha of Chapter 16. He was likely relying on the kind of advice Nichiren gave to Shijo Kingo. They were both right.

It is clear from the letter that Hakiri preferred to have all 5 statues. He just could not afford it. Nikko told him to chant to his paper mandala until he could afford them.
BTW, the strange idea that statues should replace the mandala comes from Nikko's disciple Nichizon, who helped found Nichiren Honshu of the Nikko lineage. It may have came from misreading this letter.

Generally, statues are for large permanent places like temples. The Mandala is portable and does not require so much space, so it is better for homes. It is also cheaper to make, so Nikko had a point. Hakiri maybe should have waited until he could do it right. Niko stepped in and helped Hakiri save face.

Now, on Niko versus Nikko, on other issues, we need a different thread.

Isn't it a fact that Toki Jonin had some problems later on in his practice and even ordained himself? Was he the recipient of a Gohonzon? We all know that Nichiren just didn't hand them out to anyone!



The insistence of the Four Boddhisatva's takes the focus off the individual, and I have no problem with this representation, but it doesn't represent the Law. It represents the person and the Law. The Gohonzon represents the Law, not the person.

The Nakayama lineage temples owns at least 12 original Nichiren Mandalas.

There are two at Nakayama Hokkekyo-ji. In addition, Joko-in, one of the sub-temples and shrines associated with Hokekyo-ji Temple, houses at least one {1} original Nichiren Mandala Gohonzon

Nisshin of the Nakayama Lineage founded Kyoto Honpo-ji circa 1429 . There are at least four {4} original Nichiren Mandala Gohonzon{s] kept there:

Sakai Myokoku-ji is home to at least three {3} original Nichiren Mandala Gohonzon{s]. It is a Nakayama Lineage Temple located at Sakai City in Osaka Prefecture. It was founded in 1562.

Nisshuku Shonin, a cleric from Nakayama Hokkekyo-ji, founded Kyoto Chomyo-ji Temple in 1673. Kyoto Chomyo-ji houses two {2} original Nichiren Mandala Gohonzon{s].

Also, Nakayama preserved a large number of original Nichiren writings.

Also, Joko-in houses the 13th Century Mizukagami Portrait.

Nakayama also owns a famous Koyasu Kishimo statue said to be carved by Nichiren himself.

I'm asking about Toki Jonin himself, not the lineage.

Well, I assume one of those was likely his. He took very good care of "stuff," he set the system for preserving artifacts and documents that is still used at Hokkekyo-ji.

Toki Jonin was entrusted with more than forty Gosho letters. They included such important writings as: "The Essentials of the Lotus Sutra" (Hokke shuyo sho), "On the Four Stages of Faith and the Five Stages of Practice" (Shinshin gohon sho), and the Rissho Ankoku Ron, which the Daishonin transcribed and presented to the Shogunate to leave for future generations. Jonin was given an extremely important Gosho, "The True Object of Worship" (Kanjin no honzon sho) --- The Doctrines and Practice of Nichiren Shoshu

So, um a,

Can someone explain the rationale of an altar with a paper mandala and statues before it?

And the ritual interaction with the objects before such an altar?

Thanks.

Q

Q -

I don't think that there is all that much "rational" about it. I think it is much more of what makes people feel good, or just what they like. The "rational" ones probably don't have statues on their altars.

Letter (they aren't always paper, remember) mandalas have representations of Nichiren and Shakayamuni (the most common statues on Nichiren altars which incorporate both statues and an Omandala). In some ways the 3d representation is redundant.

Some ex-SGI/Nichiren Shoshu folk may even be adding statues as a mark of separation from their former affiliation - and it may be a form of attachment some folks will outgrow with time as well.


No different than with an Omandala alone - nothing special happens directly to, with or because of said statues. Nothing different would happen if those statues weren't there - it's really just a personal preference issue and nothing more. Remember that there is no requirement to do this - no one is forcing anyone to either have a statue or to not do so. You can even make an entire 3d statue altar if you wish to (and if you can afford it) - I know some folks who find that representation aids their meditation (chanting) moreso than a letter mandala does.

Another thing some people I know do is that they may change their altar; maybe with the seasons, or as their lives change. They decide they want a larger altar, or a smaller one. They want a different Omandala - a different image, or a different size, or a new background color, or what-have-you. Statues can also get changed out, or rotated, depending on what feel right. There is a lot of flexibility - no need for rigidity about these things that I am aware of.

That probably varies with the person who arranged the altar. I think there might be three main themes:

1. The Mandala Gohonzon is placed behind the statue to consecrate it. For example, an altar to Hotei with a mandala behind him. In this way, Hotei becomes the Maitreya on the mandala. Same scenario, but the altar might be to a Bodhisattva, such as Kannon or Tara; or even a lower deity such as Mahakala, not normally depicted on the mandala. The presence of the mandala places them at the ceremony in the sky, so to speak. placing them in their awakened aspect.

This differs from 3 in that the statue is placed front and center, rather than in alignment with the Mandala. The intent is to venerate the being depicted by the statue.

2. The 3-D mandala. This can be set up with a Mandala Gohonzon or Daimoku Stupa
behind it or in the rear center..

The statues are intended to exactly depict one of the beings on the mandala. For example, Nichiren is placed in the front center, below the Daimoku, where his signature & seal is located.

If Shakyamuni alone is used, he would be aligned with Daimoku. In this way, he is the Eternal Buddha who only appears in one chapter and two halves.

Dharma Protectors would be on the far outside.

3. A combination of 1 & 2. In this case, an emanation of a being on the altar might be placed in relation to its aspect on the Mandala. For example, placing a statue of Jesus off to the side as an emanation of Fugen. This might also be done with a being not normally on the mandala. The statue is placed off to the side in a logical location.

This differs from 1 because the intent is to venerate the Gohonzon, not the being depicted by the statue. It differs from 2, because one or two beings are high lighted,
perhaps because the person feels kinship with them.

Another thing we will see at Nichiren Shu temples are Hiokke-Shinto sub-shrines. The Kishimo-dens qualify, because she is merged with Koyasu. They chant to her to have healthy babies, or to protect their children from harm. Daokoku-ten is another fusion
deity, he is Mahakala blended with some kami with a similar name. The Dragon Goddess worship is also Hokke-Shinto. There are also Sanju Banshin shrines. Note that these statues are considered honzons, or objects of reverence.

Then there are the pure Shinto sub-shrines to Tensho Daijin, Hachiman, Innari, etc. These will usually be on a separate designated property on or adjacent to Temple grounds.

Also, there might be special shrines to Kato K. He is honored as a semi-divinity by people from Kumamoto -- hero veneration.

In all cases, except for the Eternal Shakyamuni, the beings venerated are considered Shugo-jin or Shoten-zenjin.

Thanks Engyo, Robby,

This flexibility in arrangements is interesting. I could never begrudge it. Personally, see my comments in the other thread...

On a related note, I was once told that a long time ago, local priests would inscribe Gohonzon for supporters. Then, at least in the Taisekiji lineage, it became so that only the high priests could do so. Are there any active priests or monks now who will inscribe Gohonzon for people? Are we all (meaning the various sects) using reproductions?

Time for bed.

Q

Q -

Our Myoken temple here in Houston currently has an Omandala enshrined which was personally inscribed for us by Rev. Ueno (or Ueda) of the Myoken Temple at Mt. Myoken in Japan. We did not ask for this - he decided to do so after finding out we were looking for a small Myoken image for our temple.

I know that occasionally someone will receive an Omandala or an amulet which has been personally inscribed. It is no longer a common practice, but it does still occur on occasion.

Thanks, Engyo.

Interesting. Is there any protocol or requirement for a priest or monk to inscribe a mandala? Is there special training for instance?

Q

Q -

Not to my knowledge - Nichiren never specified any that I know of. I would certainly want to have a good steady hand with a calligraphy brush before I were to attempt such an undertaking. Beyond that, there may be some sort of classes or what not - but I don't know at this time.

I remember hearing someone ask if they could draw a mandala themselves and the answer was a "No, only the High Priest can do that." This was back in NSA.

I may be wrong, but the justification was that the person inscribing has to be enlightened...

funny things people say.

Well, like so many fictions...

The person inscribing the Gohonzon doesn't have to be enlighlightened, because there are no enlightened people on earth currently. The person inscribing the Gohonzon must know the heart of the Lotus Sutra, which almost always is going to rule out the laity, and especially people that make such unfounded statements, because they don't study.

The High Priest receive a secret transmission that has been handed down via transmission to a single person. There, only He msay transcribe the Gohonzon. [Unless a deal was cut with Hota Myohonji.] If that sounds fishy, it is none of laity's
business.

Huh? I thought knowing the heart of the LS and being enlightened are the same thing. If the LS is the expression of the Buddha's enlightenment, to know its heart is to know the Buddha's heart. To nod in agreement with the Buddha means to be a Buddha oneself. To be a Buddha means to be enlightened.

Can you explain the difference between enlightenment and knowing the heart of the LS?

And how are you so sure there are no enlightened beings in this world now?

Since I attained Buddhahood
the number of kalpas that have passed
is an immeasurable hundreds, thousands, ten thousands,
millions, trillions, asamkhyas.
Constantly I have preached the Law, teaching, converting
countless millions of living beings,
causing them to enter the Buddha way,
all this for immeasurable kalpas.
In order to save living beings,
as an expedient means I appear to enter nirvana
but in truth I do not pass into extinction.
I am always here preaching the Law.
I am always here,
but through my transcendental powers
I make it so that living beings in their befuddlement
do not see me even when close by.
When the multitude see that I have passed into extinction,
far and wide they offer alms to my relics.

Chapter 16 of the LS, translation courtesy of Burton Watson

There was a corny Christian themed pop song a few years ago by Joan Osborne with a chorus that went:

What if God was one of us
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make His way home

Actually, that whole song kind of has some deep thematic similarities with Chapter 16.

Convergent evolution, I s'pose.

Problem with dogma is that is conflicts with the subtler laws of reality no matter how hard you work on making it fit.

Hi, well, nonetheless Buddhim in our modern days , it is very common for ordained monks & nuns, lay priests and priestess to attain lecture by laity scholars, I think we have come to a time of mutual teaching too ( in each different aspect ).

Ansanna

Hi Ansana,

I think this is the spirit of Mahayana - the Mahayana sutras talk of the 4 kinds of believers, not 2 kinds of sangha. And Vimalakirti makes it clear that lay life offers certain advantages over that of life in the sangha, as does the LS.

No they are not. The process of enlightenment eg; the awakening to Ichinen Sanzen [the Heart of the Lotus Sutra] comes in stages. It is this awakening that leads to enlightenment and, in the case of Nichiren, he inscribed Gohonzon before the awakening of Tatsunokuchi. He already had initial awakenings to Ichinen Sanzen which is evident in his early writings, but after Tatsunokuchi the change in his writings reflects a much deeper knowledge.

Hi Mark,

Never thought of it that way. Thank you. Lots of matters of doctrine in the Fuji lineage make sense.

But why do inscribers have to have this insight? Can't a person with a skilled hand simply copy the mandala? The principle is already established, so then its a matter of reproducing the original? What is the difference if it is photocopied or if the copying is done manually and then eye-opened?

Moreover, who decides who has insight? It can't be based on a formality of handing an office from one person to the next, because formalities are formalities.

Are we dealing with a mystical principle here that is manipulated through ritual?

Q

In Nichiren Shoshu only the High Priest makes the original. Each High Priest inscribes a Gohonzon which is then copied. The copying is done by other priests, but as long as the original was done by someone that has a lifetime of experience and practice as a High Priest has, then the copying is not an issue as long as it is done with respect.

We also bantered about whether the eye opening is even necessary here a while back. It was pretty much decided that since the Gohonzon is quite literally the Lotus Sutra, the act of chanting to it works without an eye opening ceremony being performed.



The reason only a chief priest would have the responsibility of creating the original is because he has obviously attained his stature through practice and study and is regarded by his peers as worthy of the title.



No. Just common sense I think.

While Hota was part of Nichiren Shoshu, they continued to issue copies of their Dai-honzon.

All Nichiren actually said was that eye openings should be based on the LS. In other words, the concept of the Buddha from the remote past, the Buddha of Musa Sanjin.
Musa can mean uncreated or not acquired. So we are talking about inherent awakening rather than acquired awakening, the cause rather then the effect. Of course those are still dualities.

Logically, I can not buy into a teaching that one transcription has more intrinsic value than another. I think it has to do with the faith and attitude of the chanter. I have chanted to mandalas eye opened by Nittatsu, his predecessor, Nikken, and Kemopn Hokke. Also, to some I printed myself.

My experience is that the power of each was the same. And there is a power there. I just do not think the person who wrote it or eye opened put it there. If they did, I am not sure I want to be part of that.

As far as eye opening, I guess Nichiren Shoshu does that in batches. I don;t know. I have never witnessed an eye opening by them. Nor do I know anyone who has.

Nichiren Shu does the eye opening when it is enshrined, right there in public view of the lay sangha. The person receiving it is part of that ceremony. That makes more sense to me.

To perpetuate the teachings after His passing, Nichiren Daishonin initiated a process by which the ability to fully understand and convey the spirit of the Dai-Gohonzon would be transferred by a series of High Priests. This transfer is referred to as the "Heritage of the Transmission of the Living Essence," and has explicit doctrinal roots in two of Nichiren Daishonin's writings. * The Second High Priest, Nikko Shonin, received the Living Essence directly from Nichiren Daishonin. Thereafter, the Living Essence has been similarly transferred in an exclusive, person-to-person manner to each successive High Priest. The Daishonin described the significance of this transfer as follows:

Although the High Priest is not viewed as equal to Nichiren Daishonin, who alone is revered as One with the Law, the High Priest is considered to be the single person who possesses the omniscient perspective of the correct teachings, and the only one who can lead in a way that exactly corresponds with the compassionate direction of the Founder. He also ensures that each Gohonzon issued to new believers is endowed with the "mind and heart of Nichiren" and that the "mind and heart" is filtered to the priesthood, who thereby propagate the teachings in the context of their individual capacities. It is for these reasons that the successive lineage of High Priests is considered one of the Three Treasures of Nichiren Shoshu.

That is what Nichiren Shoshu actually teaches. The HP possesses a 'living essense' or an unique empowerment inherited from his predecessors.

Nichiren Shoshu also teaches:

Furthermore, since this was his role during the modern evolution of Buddhism, Nichiren Daishonin concluded that he must have been the Original Buddha who initially laid the seeds of Buddhahood for Shakyamuni and all others in the far distant past. This principle was clearly expressed in a letter to one of his disciples:

My heart is where all Buddhas enter nirvana; my tongue, where they turn the wheel of doctrine; my throat, where they are born into this world; and my mouth, where they attain enlightenment

I don't think Nichiren clearly said anything of the sort. I think he was clearly using figurative language. Each of us experiences that identical 'feeling' when we awaken to the deathless.

* Transfer Documents (Gosho Zenshu, p. 1675) (The originals of these documents were misappropriated by a deeply confused priest and never recovered. Their previous existence and the theft, however, are well documented.):

This is more nonsense. The real transfer documents still exist at Nishiyama. It is unclear how they got there from Kitayama. There is nothing well documented about it. That kind of hyperbole is a huge turn off. If there were a single scrap of documentation, we would be told what is.

The documentation that does exist in public view points to Nichigen of Nishiyama as the forger. If Taisekiji has proof, let us see it! SGI now admits two of the 4 TD's are fakes. I suspect that Nishiyama may well have taken the real TD's from Kitayama. And there they remain to this day. In fact, they are now in the public domain.

Quotations are from A publication of Seiganzan Myoshinji Temple.

Link

Eye opening of wooden and painted objects, not Gohonzon. That Gosho was a refutation of Shingon, not an attempt to explain what is a common practice in Buddhism.



The reference to the Law as the Living Essence is new and stems from Nichiren Shoshu trying to keep members after the split and was introduced by the International division as far as I can tell. I pay it no mind as something that keeps members who don't study practicing, and there is nothing wrong with that. It is the same thing as telling people they can get anything they chant for.



Well why don't you just look this passage up and find out? At the same time why don't you look up T'ien-t'ai on just what deathlessness and non-birth really mean, because it doesn't mean you don't die or are not born. It means you are born with full knowledge of the past, present, and future, and living in the moment [clear of past karma].

And at the same time, why don't you stop trashing Nichiren Shoshu! You take the words of priests who are committed to nothing more than spreading the Law and hold it against them, all the while not having a clue that in the big picture it doesn't matter if you are Nichiren Shoshu, Nichiren Shu or SGI. The only thing that matters is that we are all practitioners of the Lotus Sutra, and we are all on the path. Trash practitioners of the Lotus Sutra at your own peril.

I think you need to correct your own school on those accounts before throwing stones at me. Nichiren Shoshu repeatedly trashes what they incorrectly call the Monibu Sect. I also think they knowingly put words in the mouths of Nichiren and Nikko, effectively giving all of Nichiren a bad name in the larger Sangha. Tell your own Head Temple to lose all the stuff about "5 heretical priests" who betrayed the Daishonin, then you might have an ounce of credibility.

I am committed to intellectual honesty, I am going to call it as I see it. I am not telling you what you to believe, say, or do. Quite frankly, I am fed up with you trying to censor me. You are a pretty good guy compared to most Nichiren Shoshu believers on line, but the know it all-i-ness gets tiresome. I shall keep calling it as I see it, and there is not a thing you can do stop me.

If I spread any actual untruths, tell me, and show me the evidence. All I did was point out what Nichiren Shoshu actually teaches in their own words. On several occasions, you claimed Nichiren Shu teaches things they do not. You claimed it is on their web site. But for some reason, you can't show us the quote or give the link.

You do not seem to realize that Nichiren Shu is not one temple, like Taisekiji. It is a huge confederation of temples from Nissho's, Nichiro's, Nikko's, Niko's, Nichiji's, and Nichijo's lineages. There are even sub-lineages. They may not all agree, but they do work together.

The most annoying thing about Nichiren Shoshu are all the strong, boastful statements. They repeatedly makes dubious claims preceded by words like clear, obvious, etc. Your complaint is with them, not I.

"For example, the Minobu Nichiren sect's temples contain many diverse objects of worship such as a "gohonzon", a statue of Shakyamuni Buddha, a fox or Kishimojin (A female demon). Members may chant Daimoku to ail of them. Such being the case, they even sell the "gohonzon at the store by their temple. Another sect, the Rissho-Kosei-Kai, has changed their "gohonzon" least 5 or 6 times. This is so ridiculous. This is not Nichiren Daishonin's original Buddhism anymore even though they still chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo like us. They cannot create real benefit and enlightenment based an the True Object of Worship." -- Rev. Dosho Sakata Myogyoji Temple

"In order to honor Nichiren Daishonin as the Original Buddha in the age of Mappo, we must first define the form of Buddhism which is based correctly on the Daishonin's teachings. However, seven hundred years have passed since the use of Nichiren Daishonin, and there are many sects which call themselves the "Nichiren Sect" and chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. In addition. many new religions have grown since World War II, like so many mushrooms after a rainstorm, and seem to think that simply by chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, they are following lofty teachings. However, such religions simply expound their own egocentric teachings using the Daimoku as a front." -- ibid

" I also visited the Head Temple of the Minobu sect. They are laid out in such a way that the buildings are cluttered and the atmosphere of these temples is gloomy. I realized that there is no temple that surpasses Taisekiji." -- Rev. Gyoyu Urushibata, Vice Chief Priest of Myorenji Temple

I think ALL Buddhists need to hang together, or we shall hang alone. This spewing of hateful untruths by YOUR SCHOOL needs to stop. If they stop lying about others, then others will stop telling the truth about them.

gassho

robin

.

I thought so too. But Nichiren talked about eye opening copies of the Lotus Sutra and Mandalas. I was surprised to find that out. I do not have the quotes handy, but I'll check around. I think it is in either WND2 or some untranslated writing.

Hi Robin

When you've got the chance I'd be interested in those quotes. I've tried searching the SGI's online WND-1, but can't seem to come up with anything.

Cheers,

Ben

Really? . . . .I'm an SGI-member and I believe that despite of everything that the SokaSpirit stands for with issues regarding the Gohonzon transferral, I still personally believe that a Gohonzon must receive an eye-opening ceremony in order to reflect the true power of the object into the person's capability to bring the essence of Lotus Sutra in one's practice. It must need a priest, as tradition dictates, but unfortunately, we don't have priests in our organization to administer the particular blessing.

I don't believe that the traditional and "superstitious" beliefs regarding the eye-opening ceremony of a Gohonzon should be discarded away just because we live in a modern times when people want to be more practical and less ritualistic with how we acquire Gohonzons.

I agree tentatively. There a couple of factors here:

1. The skill of the person doing the eye opening. There are technical skills that may require some training.

2. The intent of the person doing the eye opening. This involves understanding the concept of the Shakyamuni of the Juryo Chapter.

Of these, #2 is more important. Generally, the other schools in Japan revered Shakyamuni as the Nirmana-Kaya, Amida as the Sambhoga-Kaya, and Dainichi as the Dharma-Kaya. This was accepted by most of Tendai, Shingon, and Ritsu.

In most Nichiren schools, the Gohonzon is eye opened as the uncreated or un-acquired triple bodied tathagata -- the nyorai of musa sanjin. This includes:

1. The Impersonal Dharma -- the Principle.
2. The Trans-personal Insight/Wisdom and Empathy/Compassion of the Buddha.
3. The Historical Shakyamuni Buddha -- the Actions of the Buddha.

Sa is a translation of a word that means made, fabricated, or created. There is also a term Adhi that means higher, origin, or source. The Buddha taught that the 8 fold path was made, fabricated, or created; while the threefold training is the origin. So the idea of an origin gate {honmom} and a trace gate {shakumon} is already there in the Pali Canon.

Now, mu means not. So musa means 'not fabricated.' Therefore, the Un-acquired or Not Created Triple bodied Tathagata is the Original Buddha -- the Adhi-Buddha or Hon-butsu. This is both the Buddha who appeared in the world as Shakyamuni
and the Buddha Nature within our heart-mind and all of existence.

Anyway, we eye open our mandala when we chant with Faith in the Lotus Sutra. There are two main principles of the LS -- The Eternity and Universality of the Buddha-Nature.

If we want a technically correct Kaigen; we need to find a trained minister who is willing to do the blessing. One thing, if we do that, we should discuss a donation and if they come to us, any travel expenses. The specifics are up to the Minister in most schools. I know that some in Nichiren Shu will bless a generic mandala, such as one from Kaiundo. Others would have to be discussed.

gassho,

robin

It is a fact that two did revert to Tendai in the face of persecution, which is documented quite well. The fact that Nichiren Shoshu extended that to include all five is wrong, but that is what happens with history. It mutates over the years.

It is also a fact that Nichiren Shu does the same type of thing in trying to revise history to suit themselves. They're doing it now on their LA website.



la.nichirenshu.org

Sorry, but I work quite a lot and don't have the time to do research for people.



I'm not trying to censor you, but I'm not going to let you get away with trashing priests just because they have a different view than you. Has anyone been able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what Nichiren Shoshu teaches is not correct? No!
These priests believe what they say is true or they would not say it, even though they may also institute a few expedient means along the way for the benefit of the laity to keep them practicing.

I happen to like a lot of the work you do, but you also do make mistakes sometimes, as I do as well. The bottom line though is that most, if not all, Nichiren Shoshu priests are only trying to spread True Buddhism, and they also call it like they see it.

Lets look at this term "Living Essence". When pressed, Rev Takano said that "Living Essence" was the "Teachings" of Nichiren Daishonin. Yet, when people read it they take the literal form and think it is some mystical transfer when in reality it is only the transfer of the teachings. But, are not the teachings a "Living Essence" because they live on through the propagation?



What is untrue about this? The reason that the scholarly community thinks that Nichiren was a nationalist is because the nationalists hijacked the Daimoku in order to lend credence to their own faulty views. Rissho Kosei Kai started out as a sect based on famial piety and only started growing when they hijacked the Daimoku. At least Nichiren Shu has done an excellent job of transforming a whole bunch of disparate sects of Nichiren Buddhism into something that fits the mainstream of Nichiren religion, and you did know that Nichiren Shu started out as a conglomeration of these disparate sects didn't you?



But I have admitted that Nichiren Shoshu has embellished certain doctrines over the centuries. I have said that the True Buddha Theory has a hole in it big enough to drive a Mack truck through. I actually think that your theory on the DaiGohonzon makes more sense than any other that I've heard, and I don't say "Living Essence" in my third prayer. I say "Teachings".

Yet even though I do not ascribe to everything that Nichiren Shoshu says, their misgivings are nothing compared to other sects. I think Nichiren Shu has done a great job, but they still base their sect off of Nichiro, and I cannot base my faith on someone that abandoned his.

Oh, so you just make inane comments and have no source? What was there? BTW, that
is the LA Temple site. Other schools do not have a HP that sets dogma. There are several errors on that site. He misidentifies a portrait of Nichiren fir one thing. Other NShu sites identify the portrait correctly.

That is BS. They were all Tendai until 1334 or so. As Tendai monks, they had legal protections. Nichiren cited those himself at Tatsunokuchi. Citing their defense as Tendai monks was nothing. Had they not, they were legally renegade monks. That is why Nichiren was aligned with Mt. Hiei and afforded himself of that protection. That is the fireball that saved him.

The possible error, the one thing Nikko could not swallow, was joining in the National Prayer. That, and allowing dues paying to Ryobu Shinto Shrines. But you might as well say Nichiren was a coward because he ran and hid at Toki Jonin's estate. In 1284, a negotiated settlement with Hei no Saemon to protect the Sangha was called for. Just as Nichiren going into hiding in 1260, until things cooled off with the Regency, was called for.

They were facing Mastsubagayatsu all over again. But this time, it was not just one hermitage in an undeveloped wooded area. They had temples at Hikigayatsu, Hama,
and Ikegami in immediate peril. Maybe Honshoji too. There are still a lot of Nichiren temples there. Had Nissho not cut a deal, they were wiped out.

Hei-no-Saemon found a loop hole. As Tendai Monks, they were obliged to join the prayers. It was their legal duty. Without the protection of Mt. Hie, they had no where to run and hide. That is my take.

Besides, that was 723 years ago. And the history is largely conjectural. And there are plenty of Nikko lineage temples in Nichiren Shu. Three big ones are independent -- Niishiyama, Hota, & Yohoji.

Oh, I am still SGI. And I am critical of them too, not just of Taisekiji.

We steered away from the Gohonzon issue to Kamakura Era politics.

There has been a one sided process of rationalization of reality for the last fifteen years that contains in its midst unethical behavior by both priest and laity in the sole attempt to lure SGI members away from SGI and into their own fold. It is this unethical behavior that I cannot abide.

We were told a number of untruths by people that are in positions of responsibility for the last fifteen years that we are now finding out to be the untruths they always were, partly because of Robins work. Because of this, I cannot ever put my faith in these people or their religion, so I will continue to practice with people that have not knowingly lied [Nichiren Shoshu has not changed their story in the last fifteen years], and BTW, a practice that has lead to awakening to Ichinen Sanzen, not the history of unenlightened men.

If a sect wants to increase their numbers then they should do so by doing fresh shakubuku, not by destroying peoples faith. I don't like SGI, but you won't find me trying to get their members to come back to Nichiren Shoshu. I know Robin is the same in this regard, as he really is only interested in finding out the truth, and no matter the fact that Robin and I go round and round I still respect his work to find out the truth. This process between us should not prevent anyone from practicing.

I am not sure which errors you mean. But the state of scholarship has advanced. I do not know of any deception by Kempon Hokke or Nichiren Shu. I know of one minor document -- The Distribution of Momentos -- that has been debunked. Those who thought it was legit were sincere though.

It is even possible to rationalize that the DOM does not contradict the Will. In much the same way that Taisekiji tries to rationalize that the 'Two Transfer Docs' do not cintradict
the Rokuroso, the Wll, details of the funeral & procession at Ikegami., The Shift for Protecting His Mausoleum, Mimasaka-bo Gohenji, a letter dated February 19th, 1285 written by Hakiri Sanenaga to Nikko, the original of which is kept at Nishiyama Honmon-ji Temple, Hara Dono Gohenji, and "Fuji Isseki Monto Zonchi no Koto."

The thing is, on the face, all of those are inconsistent with the Two Transfer Docs as well as The Distribution of Momentos. Get rid of those, the narrative makes sense.

On theories of the Taisekiji Dai Gohonzon Origin, there are 4:

1. That Nippo carved it, it was enshrined at Minobu, Nikko took it with him. That is actually more possible than most think.

2. It was from 1333, and Nichiu acquired it from a Hiokke Fraternity. If so, then why is it dated 1279?

3. Nichiu forged it. -- see the Kawabe Memo.

4. My theory that it was inscribed on paper for the Yashiro mentioned in the Ryusenji Petition. It was transferred to wood about 1634 and the original was lost. It was since confused with the Dai-Honzon of Nichiu. That one was taken from Taisekiji by Nichiu
and hidden. It is the one now owned by Honmon Shoshu. I suspect that is the one Nichiren made for the Kaidan.

Another thing, ithere is sketchy the famous "Gain & Loss" inscriptions are not even on there; or were added in the 20th C when it was rehabbed. Either way, the presence of those, or lack thereof, is a red herring. Nichiren wrote them on at least 4 extant mandalas. Nikko wrote them on at least one.

Link

Again, no real deception was involved. The problem was lack of good data; and too much bad data. I think the theories were made in good faith.

Some guy is now selling what he claims is a replica of the Taisekiji Dai Gohonzon. I can not find his in the Gohonzon Shu. It looks authentic.

link

Perhaps we can discuss this one? The next one after the Aizen & Fudo Kankenki would be the Life Prolonging Amulet Nichiren wrote fir his mother.

To review:

1. We have a cooy of a wood block print of a Mandala that Nichiren allegedly inscribed in on March 20 1954. That was when Nichiren was in Kamakura, and at his first Matsubayatsu Hermitage, in the developing Nagoe Hills area. Joben, aka Nissho Shonin (1221-1323), became his disciple in 1253. Nissho's youthful nephew, Nichiro (1245-1320) joined a year later. The location of the first hut might be at either Myohoji or next door at Ankokuronji.

If the reader goes back through the posts, you can see efforts to translate what ir written on the Mandala. We got side tracked, so let's review that next?

The Daimoku is in the center, flanked by the two Buddhas; Shakamuni Butsu and Taho Nyorai. Nichiren's signature with superimposed kao seal is below the Daimoku. Below Shaka is a name Kishimojin {Hariti}. It might read Kishimo-jurasetsu-nyo. Below Taho, might be the name Tensho Daijin {Amaterasu Omikami}. Note that Namu Shakyamuni Buddha is on our left, or the mandalas right; while Namu Taho Nyorai {Tathagata} is on the opposite side.

Next, in the upper area, there is some diagonal writing on each side., flanking the Daimoku and two Buddhas This type of thing is seen on a few authenticated mandalas. Normally, these are brief notes or sutra quotations intended as encouragement for the recipient. There are also banners on top. While not common. these are seen on some on some authenticated mandalas. The banner and side inscriptions might tell us why this mandala was made.

On the lower right {facing}, we see what might be a passage. I'm told that if you follow the stroke from Myo in the daimoku down toward the bottom right facing, or the mandala's left, there is Komokuten, the Guardian of the West (one of the Four Guardian Kings), On Nichiren's standard Great Mandala, Dai Komoku tenno is always on the lower right facing, or the mandala's lower left. On the far botton right is the date -- Kencho 6 {1254} third month twentieth day (hatsuka).

Finally, there is some writing on the lower left side {facing}. There appears to be
a phrase extolling the blessings of those who propagate the Lotus Sutra. Note that Dai Zocho Tenno, Heavenly King of the South, is also usually in the lower left {facing} corner, Since Komokuten is on the other side, Zochoten might be among the characters on the lower left.

with palms together,

robin

lead the way, Robby.

As an aside, these would have been inscribed about the same time as the Mizukagami Portrait is said to have been painted. There are the oldest confirmed amulets or mandalas drawn by Nichiren. The next one, which is not fully confirmed, takes us to 1264. First, any more thoughts on the Aizen & Fudo Kankenki?

Hey Robby,
First, on the Aizen and Fudo objects-
1. Are these considered honzon, as in objects toward which one would direct their attention to achieve enlightenment? Or are these more like charms for protection or other worldly type benefit?
2. So these were "lost" until relatively recently, so tied with the first question, I am guessing we don't know what sort of practice was associated with them. Would people chant daimoku before these objects? Recite the LS?

Comments on the newly posted image:

I am surprised by the use of color. I have been looking a lot at Zen painters from the Kamakura and Muromachi periods lately, and in my amateur opinion, color is used very selectively in those. Usually just a dash of red here or there in landscape paintings that draw the viewer's attention to a torii or a temple building. In other pictures, you get red for the robes of Bodhidharma, but again, its limited.

I asked my girlfriend about this painting. She is not an expert, but she is a PhD candidate in Japanese Art History. She focuses on mostly medieval painting, but also some Heian period stuff.

Her initial comment was that the painting looks modern. When I pressed her, she said the green seemed too vibrant, but she was not sure. The paintings that she has seen that date from the Kamakura period are not as well preserved with the colors significantly faded. Also, the brush strokes don't seem to fit with that period. She also mentioned the facial features are too detailed, although she does admit that non-aristocrats were beginning to be portrayed more individualistically during the Muromachi period. She said it looked more like a more recent water color. She said some of the stylistic aspects could put it in the Muromachi period.

I suggested that perhaps this painting would better be considered as a piece of folk art, basically meaning that it does not follow the conventions of formal professional painting, and she suggested that the faces are painted well indicating that the painter had training, but that this could be a possibility. If it is "folk art" this would exempt it from some of the stylistic comments she made.

Q

the original paintings were by K. Touko in 1920 for "Nichiren Shonin". The scans have been toyed with too.

Eddie of Honmon Shoshu tried to explain the kankenki, but i could not follow. I would think they were protectors, perhaps placed on the sides of an altar. Nichiren Buddhists did pray to 'separate' enshrinements" though. So Daimoku may have been chanted to them to activate that 'power.' I am guessing though.

If I can find it, I'll post the Kishimon-den attributed to Nichiren from 1264-1266. People visit Nakayama to pray to her for healthy children. The same sort of thing could apply.

[quote=robby,Jul 9 2007, 01:07 PM]

[/quote]
the original paintings were by K. Touko in 1920 for "Nichiren Shonin". The scans have been toyed with too.

[/quote]

Ah, for some reason I had been under the impression that this image was claimed to have been painted during Nichiren's life. Totally makes sense that this was a 1920's image. You can totally see the Western influence here and this image would fit right in at an exhibition of Taisho/ pre-WWII Showa paintings.

I am pretty sure the only painting of Nichiren definitely from the 13th C is the Mizukagami portrait. All the pictorial bios are more recent, and have some facts wrong.
The Mizukagami Portrait and the Kankenki are from around the same time.

While in exile at Izu {May 12 1261 to Feb. 22 1263}, Nichiren won over the Feudal Steward by curing his illness. The Steward, Sukemitsu Ito, rewarded Nichiren by presenting him with the "Buddha from the Sea." This was a small golden Shakyamuni Buddha statue that had been caught in a fisherman's net. Nichiren kept it as his personal 'Buddha Honzon.' It is said that he carried it in the sleeve of his robe.

After Nichiren's passing, the Golden Buddha was enshrined during the funeral, along with a Great Mandala recently dubbed the Shutei Honzon. Nichiren's authenticated will, kept at Nishiyama Honmon-ji, stipulates that the Buddha was to be enshrined at his mausoleum; which was to be built at Mt. Minobu.

However, soon after, there was a dispute with the Feudal Landlord at Minobu. Nichiro Shonin, the second ranked Elder, removed the statue for safe keeping, and took it back to Kamakura Myohon-ji Temple. In a 1289 letter, Nikko Shonin, the third ranked Elder, complained that Nichiro had made off the Buddha intended for the grave-site.

According to the traditional Nichiren Shu story, Nichiren left it to Nichiro. A document, the Distribution of the Mementos, recording this, is kept at Ikegami Honmonji. However, the present consensus is that this document is a later forgery.

A Nichiren Shu Temple at Izu, Butsugen-ji claims to have the original Buddha statue. However, I can not find any story on how it got there from Myohon-ji. Also, the statue there is described as a foot tall. This might be a bit too large for Nichiren to have carried in his sleeve.

An obscure lineage known as Honmon Shoshu, based in Yokohama, recently produced what they believe is the original. It is less than 5 inches tall, small enough to fit in the sleeve of a robe. Note that this lineage has a record of producing controversial artifacts. Some have been authenticated; none, that I know of, have been debunked.

According to them, Nichiro Shonin delivered it to the custody of Nichimoku Shonin at Taisekiji in 1293. It was then kept in Shaka-do [Shakyamuni Buddha Hall] there, until 1482. At that time, a Taisekiji Chief Priest left there, taking a number of important artifacts with him. He hid them at a place called Ide's Cave, on property of the Nitta {Niida} Clan. The Honmon Shoshu lineage is descended from the Niida Clan. That is their story as I understand it. The artifacts include:

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